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Shiesty Industry Shit


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#1 OfficeTime8889

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 06:32 PM

So I learned a few moments ago that Pete Rock produced what would become Biggie's "Juicy."  I'd never heard as much as a rumor regarding the rightful producer of the track before but PR himself made it known: https://www.youtube....h?v=bnUgNP5VmNU.  

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of the drums on the PR OG; their sort of convoluted and over-programmed.  I suppose, at least in theory, they'd be easier to troubleshoot after hearing the referent.  What we know as "Juicy" is a classic no doubt.  It would be nice if more people knew the story, if its credited producers gave Pete some props, and if some checks were made in his name.  Unrealistic...I know.  Anyways, what do you guys think?  Any other instances in history along these lines you guys care to share?  Ghostwriters/ producers who've gotten busted maybe? 



#2 OfficeTime8889

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 06:43 PM

ATCQ's "Jazz (We've Got)" || http://genius.com/37...at-ya-dont-stop


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#3 jbuzz

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 06:52 PM

This is a really strange topic. I think in hip hop, authenticity matters more than most other genres, yet some cats can get away with it. For whatever reason, people are more adverse to hearing ghostwritten raps than ghostproduced tracks. Dr. Dre got away with his entire career being written by the D.O.C. and DPG because, even though he didn't write the music, he gave away the image of authenticity in his lifestyle (beating up Dee Barnes and shit), and because everyone knew that he didn't actually write them and he never seriously pretended otherwise. On the flip side, Nas got crucified when people said he had Untitled ghostwritten because he has this reputation for being one of the best writers in hip hop, and because he hushed the shit up. 

The way I heard the Pete Rock story originally was that Puffy heard the song Juicy was sampled from being worked on at Pete's house or studio, and basically just jacked the sample to make the hit for Biggie. Obviously, if this is true, it's super dodgy and Pete Rock should get at least some credit for the track, even though he didn't actually produce it himself. Also, I thought that PR was credited on Jazz (We've Got), and even if he wasn't Q Tip and Phife acknowledge that he made the beat for that plenty of times so I don't think there's any conflict.

I think that the way people present themselves when having stuff ghostwritten and ghostproduced is what matters the most. If you make pretensions to having done it alone, people will hate you for it – rightly so, you're straight up lying to them. But if you're honest, nobody except some ultra purists will give a fuck. Look at pop... people think Beyonce is the shit when she has like 40 people working on one song. Idk. My two cents.


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#4 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 07:05 PM

That song was horrible.

I do know that a credible person who can attest to ghostwriting is persona non grata around here. For what its worth, Mr. Marriott has been approached in the past to ghostproduce. Hed have a much better understanding and story to tell.

Its funny o think about hiring people to make your music. I wonder how many songs were ghostproduced for people on Def Jam years ago. Its like they go through cycles of one producer getting credit for ripping off a song from tajikhistan.

#5 OfficeTime8889

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 07:06 PM

Look at pop... people think Beyonce is the shit when she has like 40 people working on one song. Idk. My two cents.

 

 

Yea, it's a tough call really.  So many conflicting viewpoints, "understandings," and accounts.  Just read this Q-Tip interview where he addressed having produced the first three ATCQ albums in their entirety despite ATCQ being credited as the producers, Dilla's frustration with The Ummah, and the whole controversy surrounding "Jazz (We've Got" and Pete Rock. 

 

I will say, and I think this has to be said before exploring the topic any further, that Pete Rock's been in the middle of similar chaos at other times in his career -- namely the whole Lupe Fiasco/ Tom Scott ordeal from a couple years back.  I'm kind of questioning Pete's credibility at this point...he comes off as disgruntled...albeit perhaps rightfully so. 



#6 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 08:16 PM

Dont recall a Pete Rock shout out on the track (or did he say pr..."for the beat.") but i do recall some remixes.
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#7 James Frank.

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:32 PM

if we're gonna talk biters, then we have to mention the numerous Timbaland legal fiascoes...



#8 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:39 PM

I never really knew much about stuff hes lifted. Hes one rapist looking guy for sure. I remember him getting into a hissy fit with Scott Storch. Storch torched him. There are so many fools who lack any musical ability that deserve to die from some natural cause for stealing.

#9 EdTheYounger

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 04:48 PM

There's heaps of rumours and even some videos of producers confronting Mac Miller for using their shit uncredited and without paying. I don't know why rappers are so stupid when it comes to this shit.

#10 GPBear

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 06:53 PM

no one gives a shit about what terrible bottom barrel b-side pete marriott ghost produced for MW

 

 

http://www.stonesthr...?showtopic=4357

 

Pete Rock's always out taking credit for his jawns. Like the Dilla interview where he complains about Tupac sampling his beat. It's all part of the game. "Pete Rock for the Beat ya don't stop"

 

Pete Rock took Large Pro's horns before. The Juicy jack was bullshit because Diddy wasn't a Native tongues guy, he was gonna sell a million, it wasn't about experimenting for him, it was just the dollar. John Lennon did the same thing to Frank Zappa, rich guys fuck over the alternative guys. Alternative guys share with each other though, MNDSN Camelblues/Find My Way. The Fall In Love flylo cover. Even Snoop's La Di Da Di.

 

Diddy made his bed, now he lies in it. To question PR's credibility is nonsense. I just saw him play a less than 500 seat theater in portland, he does it for the love


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#11 OfficeTime8889

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 07:41 PM

no one gives a shit about what terrible bottom barrel b-side pete marriott ghost produced for MW

 

 

http://www.stonesthr...?showtopic=4357

 

Pete Rock's always out taking credit for his jawns. Like the Dilla interview where he complains about Tupac sampling his beat. It's all part of the game. "Pete Rock for the Beat ya don't stop"

 

Pete Rock took Large Pro's horns before. The Juicy jack was bullshit because Diddy wasn't a Native tongues guy, he was gonna sell a million, it wasn't about experimenting for him, it was just the dollar. John Lennon did the same thing to Frank Zappa, rich guys fuck over the alternative guys. Alternative guys share with each other though, MNDSN Camelblues/Find My Way. The Fall In Love flylo cover. Even Snoop's La Di Da Di.

 

Diddy made his bed, now he lies in it. To question PR's credibility is nonsense. I just saw him play a less than 500 seat theater in portland, he does it for the love

 

Covers don't apply to the unwritten rules/ artistic codes of conduct that we're talking about here.  From my understanding of Pete's account, the "Juicy" beat hadn't left his pads before it was replicated.  Please correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm not quite sure.  In any event, if they hadn't left his pads -- I'm also not sure if that constitutes stealing, biting, or if there are any legalities in question here, but -- that's definitely infringing in some way or another -- personal and/ or professional.  No question PR does it for the love as you say.  Speaking specifically on what went down w/ him and Lupe, and I don't mean to revisit this in depth here because I'm sure it's already been covered ad nauseam elsewhere, but there were some inconsistencies between what he and Lupe reported.  Given the emotional attachment Pete had to the the sample and "TROY," there's reason to believe Lupe was forthright and Pete ambiguous.  I say this with all due respect to Pete...this is in no way a slight

 

EDIT: By the way GPBear, thanks for linking to that topic!



#12 OfficeTime8889

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 10:53 PM

I'm sort of thinking along as I go here.  Don't mind me,  :)

 

Questlove addresses the recreating of other producers' beats though yet another Dilla anecdote: https://youtu.be/23e...tgtQ?t=1h38m22s

 

It seems to me that intent, which is impossible to determine, should be weighed in this discussion.  Maybe we should treat the question on a case by case basis rather than make blanket statements and proclamations?  Might there be too many variables and far too much backstory and sheer knowledge to aggregate before really being able to intelligently have this discussion?


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#13 MWBOOGIE

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Posted Yesterday, 05:29 PM

Spoken like a supreme court justice ruling on some thing that matters, instead of the crap theyve been ruling on with their stupid, flowery language. No disrespect to the Petitioners, of course.

Since we are talking about uncleared samples, will copyright holders continue to pursue the pop acts that lift music? What a ploy by this music industry. Its like the devil mimicing Christ. © TM me,

These performers have not only jacked music, but they copied the style of independent artists. Id like to see them get hit frequently.

Ive witnessed 9 artists locally that were ready to sign admissible court documents alleging thievery by Kanye. Im sure at least 2 of those are legit.
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#14 OfficeTime8889

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Posted Today, 12:12 PM

Ive witnessed 9 artists locally that were ready to sign admissible court documents alleging thievery by Kanye. Im sure at least 2 of those are legit.

 

Big fish seems to always eat [the] little fish.  For this reason, probably among others, I have a love and hate relationship with hip-hop.  I guess this begs the question, "What is hip-hop and are these artists who make hip-hop/ rap music and play today's part really hip-hop?  "You sound real good and you play the part well but the energy you're giving off is so unfamiliar." ~ Jay Electronica 

 

Anyways, to your point, A$AP Rocky recently released a song titled "Canal St" where he situates new verses of his around a previously released song.  Bones is credited with a feature on Rocky's track so it's not full-on stealing per se.  I don't know what you guys think but this coincides with the shiesty industry shit I had in mind when I started this topic.  






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