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#1 jbuzz

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:45 PM

I was talking to a mate of mine who is a die-hard Kanye fan, and basically didn't like All Day because he wasn't interested in a 37-year-old bragging about how hard he was ballin. A lot of the praise for Kendrick seems to be that he is maturing well as an artist. A pretty big chunk of the detraction from Jay-Z stems from people's dislike from the way he's aged as a rapper. Snoop Dogg is 43 and retiring. I personally can't help but cringe when I hear anyone over like 35 bragging about how gangsta they are.

 

Does this bother you guys? Do you care if the content of an 'older' rapper's work is immature if the delivery and flow is still super dope? Do you reckon it's specific to gangsta rap and braggadocio? Food for thought.



#2 Grifty-Rodriguez

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:59 PM

dooms old as fuck and half the dudes on this forum would suck his dick still


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#3 jbuzz

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:03 PM

He's more of a persona than a person though so I don't think he really counts?



#4 jbuzz

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:07 PM

but then again most rappers are personas. Didn't really think that through haha



#5 Grifty-Rodriguez

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:21 PM

i know what you mean though.  they always say rap is a young man's game.  but i dunno... i think music in general is for the young to push.  like, old ass dudes seems to always get all cooped up in their own bullshit and get stale and stagnant and shit before they get waaaay old.  like, my gramps thinks the beatles are bullshit and chubby checker is the dopest rocknroll ever, i'm like whuuuuut.  fool'd have a heart attack if he heard nirvana.  my pops is all obsessed with the beatles but kind of thinks anything made after 88 or so is trash, don't get him started on rap.   my point though is all music is kind of for young people to progress and change, old folks just want to keep the same old shit they had.  we're like concrete; as babies we're malleable and soft but as we age we get all shitty and solid.  young people are used to constant change and crave it, old folks are sick of it all already and just seek comfort. 


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#6 ODK

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:37 AM

I think the timeline we're in no one has been able to be an old man and into hiphop yet, Hiphop is not old enough for anyone to be like 60 and still going. I don't like ego swelling or bragging i any form from any generation, we're moving into a time on this planet where it just isn't welcome, or needed anymore. You will get roasted now a days if your bragging.

 

Who could hold it down as long as The Rolling Stones, Johny Cash, I mean whole lifetime thing going on, is it actually exposing rappers need to grow up. If like Doom you have created a character a persona, it can be timeless. Wrestlers do this and when they do it well it can last for years e.g Undertaker, but even then, will we get the phenom at 60 years old knocking out tombstones, I highly doubt that, apply that to making tunes and it can be viewed the same. Somewhere you have to look and know it's just not the right thing anymore.


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#7 jbuzz

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 01:34 AM

I think this also has something to do with how quickly hip hop reinvents itself, as opposed to four-chord pop music and rock and ∆lternative/indie rock which has a slower and more consistent change and in general stays grounded in the same harmonic progressions. Every five years there's a new 'trend' and what's hot completely changes, and whether it's trap or G-Funk or the abandoning and resurgence of sampling or whatever, it can make it incredibly hard for an artist who's come up in one trend to transfer to the next.

 

I think (in mainstream hip hop) Snoop is a great example of this, with his vocal style melding perfectly with funk-based beats but being more or less incompatible with many other hip-hop sub-genres (except club bangers), whereas Jay-Z came up in a period of transition and was able to pretty much cement himself in two distinct eras of east-coast hip hop for a good six or seven years longer than Snoop before he also fell off. 


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#8 EdTheYounger

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 02:24 AM

All that matters is speaking true... Age never phases me when listening to an artist. Kanye's age doesn't phase me but he's deviation from semi-conscious rap to full blown Kim love songs and bank roll hype does.

 

as mentioned in another thread I look at El-P, Killer Mike, Aesop rock, KA, the WU members, DOOM (I wish madlib was still going to) etc as all being examples of artists with work I still look forward to hearing. But with the kanyes and jay-z's it's not so much their age but more the rinse repeat age of their music that concerns me. I think hip hop is coming out of the bling/trap pop period as quickly as it entered it with the popularity of albums like RTJ 2, Cocaine pinata, black mesiah and now to pimp a butterfly. Kanye and Jay Z are kind of like Nokia or Kodak. They got so much money they kind of stopped trying, or worse, started trying to hard... Now everything (musically) seems to be moving on without them in my opinion.



#9 jbuzz

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 02:35 AM

What do you think about Common, then? Like, he's as if not more conscious than ever, but it's just... corny? I think a big part of it is his age. The beats aren't bad per se, and the raps aren't either, but he's just not interesting at all.



#10 EdTheYounger

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 02:48 AM

yeah because he's still doing the same shit... he's unconsciously conscious haha. He's making shit that's always sold for him. He's making 'be' with new beats once every 12-24 months... He's age has nothing to do with it in my opinion. It's just boring after a while hearing the same shit. Same deal with atmosphere and brother ali. RTJ is nothing like either killer mike or EL have done. To pimp a butterfly is NOTHING like Good Kid feel me? as for KA he's music is still relevant to his struggle so it sounds like it comes from an honest place. I wouldn't call anything commons done in the past 7 or so years 'honest' it's just cookie cut music. 


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#11 Grifty-Rodriguez

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 08:53 AM

I have to disagree with the idea that rock music never reinvents itself, and old dudes can be just as good as young dudes. They can, but IMO it's the same as hip hop. The older a band gets, the less "innovative" they are and more "solid" or "reliable". IMO that equals stagnant and boring. Whack. Tell me a band in rock that didn't fall way the fuck off the day they turned 35. Thom Yorke is one the only dudes that come to mind.
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#12 Dirty Cyclist

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 09:35 AM

Tell me a band in rock that didn't fall way the fuck off the day they turned 35. Thom Yorke is one the only dudes that come to mind.

 

Frank Zappa and Iggy Pop...

 

 

Sick Boy: It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: What do you mean?
Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: Some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: So who else?
Sick Boy: Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?
Sick Boy: All I'm trying to do is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: What about The Untouchables?
Sick Boy: I don't rate that at all.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: Despite the Academy Award?
Sick Boy: That means fuck all. Its a sympathy vote.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?
Sick Boy: Yeah.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: That's your theory?
Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully fucking illustrated.


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#13 GPBear

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 09:42 AM

What cracks me up is when you get down to it,

GpYUPPY.jpg


Kendrick's signed to Aftermath and gets distributed by Interscope.

You can see how originally Death Row was on Atlantic, which was owned by Warner, and Bad Boy was owned by UMG. Hence the feud.

 

Then Jay-Z was like "Man, why the fuck don't I make my own record company and sell it for 500 mil" and did so, Roc-A-Fella's owned by UMG.

 

Avril Lavigne left RCA for Epic, they're both owned by Sony, so did she really even change labels?

Also, UMG owns NBC.

 

My point is, Kendrick's owned by the same people that own Jay Leno. That's why FlyLo never gets on his albums, FlyLo is independent-Brainfeeder, and Kendrick's a corporate shill whose labels won't let him put out-of-studio musicians on his shit.

"Old artist" aren't ever any different, they just sound different. They're all owned by the same 3 motherfuckers.



#14 Farmer Dillo

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:13 AM

You can't put an age on hip-hop as its still a young genre. Plus how old are people on this forum to start saying rappers are to old and are passed it
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#15 James Frank.

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 03:17 PM

yeah because he's still doing the same shit... he's unconsciously conscious haha. He's making shit that's always sold for him. He's making 'be' with new beats once every 12-24 months... He's age has nothing to do with it in my opinion. It's just boring after a while hearing the same shit. Same deal with atmosphere and brother ali. RTJ is nothing like either killer mike or EL have done. To pimp a butterfly is NOTHING like Good Kid feel me? as for KA he's music is still relevant to his struggle so it sounds like it comes from an honest place. I wouldn't call anything commons done in the past 7 or so years 'honest' it's just cookie cut music. 

 

i would have to agree with this, because Ishmael Butler (i.e. "Butterfly" from Digable Planets) is making some of the craziest left-field hip-hop well into his 40s with Shabazz Palaces...

 

but he's pretty much the only guy i can think of who genuinely reinvented his sound and delivery while still staying true to his original essence.  most artists struggle until they find their niche, and then just ride it out until the tickets stop selling X number of years later.  Atmosphere's last album was garbage -- and i tried so hard to like it because i like Slug and Ant, but fuck...his flow's gotten so stale that you can guess what he's gonna rap about before the track even starts.

 

and that's exactly what kills most artists, is that stagnation of creative output.


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#16 Mister Yo

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 01:02 PM

Ed said it best, if someones dope theyre dope.

 

Aes Doom El... its up to the artist, where their heads at, how theyve aged, and what they want to do with themselves.

 

time changes people.

diffrent ideas, mindsets, situations, interests etc etc

 

Aes' shit has changed drastically since Float and Labor Days but i dont think hes changed for the worse hes still Aes
, HMM is tight.

 

and James, as for Atmosphere's latest album Southsiders, i thoroughly enjoyed it. much better than the family sign. Ant's production is on point i think.

 

i find myself listening to that album more than any of his older stuff nowadays. Slug has progressively changed and i feel like we've grown up with him and that albums exactly where hes at in his life right now.

 

i think its smooth as fuck, possibly my third favorite atmos release behind Overcast and God Loves Ugly. his flow is stupid slow but he aint trying to rip anyone a new asshole or anything hes trying to kick knowledge and teach life lessons.

 

but i could understand why people wouldnt want to listen to old man braggadocio rap, it depends on the image they have carved of themself. for example id listen to every new Canibus record if he ripped it as hard as he did in 2000 BC, but do i want to hear Jay Z drop another Reasonable Doubt? No way.



#17 bamajoe

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 01:50 PM

but i could understand why people wouldnt want to listen to old man braggadocio rap, it depends on the image they have carved of themself. for example id listen to every new Canibus record if he ripped it as hard as he did in 2000 BC, but do i want to hear Jay Z drop another Reasonable Doubt? No way.

 

Some older rappers have evolved away from braggadocio rap.



#18 Mister Yo

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 02:38 PM

that was exactly my point when i mentioned slugs latest album compared to Overcast bamajoe.



#19 jbuzz

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 03:18 PM

that was exactly my point when i mentioned slugs latest album compared to Overcast bamajoe.

 

A better example would be GFK. Twelve Reasons to die was the shit, and maybe one of the reasons why that is was because it seems like GFK is consciously trying to reinvigorate his sound by stretching himself and working with new producers and artists. I wasn't a huge fan of his BBNG collab this year but fuck at least he's doing 'interesting' things as opposed to just stewing in the past. Ed and JF said it already, he could have remade Supreme Clientele and Fishscale a half dozen times but he's pushing himself as an artist and trying to make new things and perfect what he's already doing well, as opposed to just repeating himself or going in a completely new and wrong direction to try and stay 'fresh' and relevant.

 

When you compare that to what the Wu are doing as a whole... GFK has it all worked out.



#20 bamajoe

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 03:35 PM

that was exactly my point when i mentioned slugs latest album compared to Overcast bamajoe.


I thought you were talking about Canibus. I don't know what the hell Jay Z is doing these days. I think I remember people not feeling Kingdom Come because of it's" mature" nature.

#21 James Frank.

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 04:00 PM

i mean, When Life Gives You Lemons... came out more recently than Donuts, so it's not like i'm hating on Slug for getting old -- that album is amazing and it's less than 7 years old.  i wrote one of my first raps on the instrumental for "Shoulda Known Better", i like Atmosphere.

 

but nothing they've made since that album has made me even raise an eyebrow, it's just typical Slug with the same flow he's grown so accustomed to that he chooses to use it on every song.

 

and now that he's in a good place in his life, i'm happy for him -- but that shit does not make for good music at all.  that's why Eminem sucks now; drug issues aside, he was genuinely rapping with his back against the wall during his peak...now there's a safety net and a legacy that will carry him for the rest of his life without him needing to ever do anything else, as there is for Slug to a much lesser extent.

 

i'm totally in the minority on this (surprise surprise), but i think that once an artist reaches some sort of seminal achievement in whatever given field or medium they've been working in, they should pack it up and move onto a new one they know absolutely nothing about.  that's really the only way to truly stay interesting and relevant through the years -- most people just want to get good at one thing and then coast through life. 

 

Picasso had like 13 radical shifts in style throughout his life-spanning career, why don't more artists strive for that?


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#22 EdTheYounger

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 04:33 PM

You're not in the minority JF. I agree. I think most people just want to be told they're good... So once they start getting paper and everyone's talking about how good they are they get complacent and hit cruise control. They keep recycling their style because everyone's told them it's good or great so they associate that feeling of praise with the style of music they make. It's almost like positive reinforcement. And good music usually comes from a struggle of some sort, I mean shit... Whole genres have been created from struggles...
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#23 Mister Yo

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 05:15 PM

im content just as long as they keep making shit i can dig, change or no change.

 

call slugs new standard flow boring but i dig it and im interested to see what he decides to do after Southsiders, if anything at all.

 

good artists grow and change, Aes is a great example, but once we start throwing in mainstream artists like Eminem, the motives are different and the fans aint even the same.



#24 James Frank.

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:07 PM

not really, man -- have you heard any of Em's shit before he got signed?

dude was an underground legend; i guarantee Slug could've taken the same route if he had really wanted to back in his prime years.

 

so i think it's admirable that he chose to not live that life, but that doesn't mean i want to hear him spit bars about the milk going bad in the fridge and dropping his kids off at soccer practice lol.



#25 Mister Yo

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 01:34 AM

to each his own.

 

and yes i have heard eminem's shit before he was signed like Infinite and whatnot



#26 jbuzz

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 01:56 AM

off topic, but how do you guys like Illogic? he's always been my favourite of the Rhymesayers affiliates



#27 DavidisBaas

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:11 AM

fuck i almost don't listen to any new shit rappers above 29 are putting out. The only old rappers i'm interested in their new shit are Kanye and lil wayne. like Drake and Kendrick both older than Biggie and Pac when they got shot, yuknow. MF doom and people like that have put out albums that are fucking fire, but i won't be interested if they would put out new shit. if all this shit makes sense because i'm high.



#28 DavidisBaas

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:14 AM

my point though is all music is kind of for young people to progress and change, old folks just want to keep the same old shit they had.

 

yeah but that's not weird. if i was my dad listening to guns n roses and shit and than my son is listening to yung lean i wouldn't understand that shit either. I think a lot of people here are already thinking "ugh yung lean, i wish the kids would listen to fucking aesop rock".  i think the shit y'all are talking about already starts here. 

Just like your fathers don't get rapshit, you don't get the newer shit. I don't see anybody on here listening to drake or future. and i don't blame ya because some people on here are like 42 or something. old af. it's the same shit y'all we're already talking about.

 

That's you



#29 Mister Yo

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Posted Today, 11:15 AM

yung lean has a few good songs though yo as does GnR






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