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Michael Brown | Ferguson Missouri


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#31 Berry Woods

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:51 PM

Shut the fuck up the penalty for shoplifting is not being shot in the face in the street without trial.
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#32 miss stress

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:47 AM

If you're trivializing what's happening in Ferguson today by suggesting that because our nation's history is replete with both isolated and institutional cases of overt racism and excessive force against the Black race that this should be but a mere blip on our consciousness, you Miss Stress are a part of the problem that has allowed for this menace



I'm not even about to get into this with you. It's not even worth me bubbling up a response to you.

I want to go in but then that would be "typical" of a black women so instead I will take the high road.


peace
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#33 Jackie Kennedy

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:02 AM

Shut the fuck up the penalty for shoplifting is not being shot in the face in the street without trial.

 

the cop didn't know he had shoplifted. he shot him for wrestling for his gun, which started from him not stopping when asked to do so.



#34 Berry Woods

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:10 AM

What was the the cop stopping him for? Was it unrelated to the robbery? Your post seemed like a list of justifications for the use of lethal force in a situation where it should not have been necessary.

#35 fungus

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:13 AM

Jackie might be trolling, but I agree with one thing – I don't think the officer will be charged.  That's my cynical prediction:  No charge based on witness reports and autopsy.
 
But the issue here has nothing to do with a robbery, and little to do with any struggle that occurred.  The kid wouldn't have been stopped in a white neighborhood, the officer wouldn't unload his gun in a white neighborhood, and the police wouldn't have rolled out with tanks a few hours later in a white neighborhood.

#36 mangoes cash

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:26 AM

the cop didn't know he had shoplifted. he shot him for wrestling for his gun, which started from him not stopping when asked to do so.

And 1) he had no gun, but a pocket knife, that was seen. 2) they shot him twelve times. A little excessive no? couldn't they have just shot him in the leg. Once?



Here is another cop killing some kid with a knife. They could have tazed him, or, shot him once, but 12 times again, seemed to be about right. The kid weighed a buck fifty, was contained in a streetcar, was zero threat to anyone.


The police force is full of dumb ass, douchebags, who watch too many shoot em up movies and video games, drink way too much red bull and are just plain and simple, unthoughtful. They kill far too easily.


#37 orchidthegreat

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:32 AM

I haven't really been paying attention to this becasue I'm white and I live in Oregon where racism is far less prevelant.  Our cops downtown ride bicycles and horses most of the time and never go out of their way to start something.

 

But what I'm hearing is:

 

1. Unarmed kid robs store

2. Some witness accounts, including the cop, said there was a physical confrontation and possibly a scuffle for his gun when police rolled up on said kid

3. Kid was shot dead

 

Other witness account say he did not confront or become physical with the cop whatsoever, even though the cop went to the hospital and treated for a minor face injury (probably due to something or someone hitting his face).

 

In a court of law, you're not going to get anywhere with complete opposite witness accounts.

 

12 shots? Complete overkill, not sure why cops don't reach for pepper spray or tasers first.  But in this instance, does it sound like this kid is some angel that just got beat up and murdered by the big bad cops?  Hell no.

 

Now I know I can't speak from an educated position on racism against blacks, because the only racism I've ever been a part of is black people making fun of me for my reflective white skin (which I laugh off, because usually their "insults" are hilarious), but is this really a racist issue?  Really?  If this kid was some white-trash, meth-head in Oregon, and the officer was any color, it wouldn't make the news in any capacity.



#38 Chason

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:36 AM

I'm pretty surprised by some of the posts in this thread 



#39 Grifty-Rodriguez

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:40 AM

I live in Oregon where racism is far less prevelant. 

+1

i live in norcal and i've never seen or heard of anything HALF this fucked up going on.  the most racist shit that ever happened to me was mexican kids calling my friend "guero". 

 

i can't speak for socal but from what i've gathered the west coast is a MUCH more diverse and laid back area than the rest of the country.

 

i can't believe that a kid could die from the police.  seriously gets me emotional whenever i think about it too long.  they're supposed to PROTECT us



#40 Chason

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:47 AM

+1

i live in norcal and i've never seen or heard of anything HALF this fucked up going on.  the most racist shit that ever happened to me was mexican kids calling my friend "guero". 

 

i can't speak for socal but from what i've gathered the west coast is a MUCH more diverse and laid back area than the rest of the country.

 

i can't believe that a kid could die from the police.  seriously gets me emotional whenever i think about it too long.  they're supposed to PROTECT us

 

What part of NorCal? I feel like shit happens in the Bay Area all the time. Oscar Grant was a HUGE deal. 

 

And where I'm from from, in NC, it was predominantly black in a lot of areas, and you still had ridiculous amounts of racism. Like, that shit is hardwired into a lot of white folks brains to where they don't even think about what they're saying/doing when they're being bigots. It's insane. My own grandma still said "colored boys" until her dying day. Then you have micro-aggression in "bigger" cities, where people appear to be more inclusive, but still do shit like refer to black crowds when they want to talk about thugs or criminals, but then pull the "And I'm NOT RACIST, cuz I have several good black friendz..." Just blows my mind when people like to talk like the era of racism is over.



#41 Grifty-Rodriguez

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:54 AM

Oscar Grant was a HUGE deal.

 

I conveniently forgot about that shit.

 

I grew up in san jose, then migrated to gilroy as a teenager. 

 

I never saw or heard any examples of racism as a kid.  Even hearing about it in school made me be like "damn, what??? really?".

 

Granted, i grew up in suburbs and never in any hardcore city street areas but still, most of my friends were mixed race, all over the place.  I dunno maybe it's just south bay? maybe i'm living in a fantasy world



#42 Chason

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:02 AM

 

I conveniently forgot about that shit.

 

I grew up in san jose, then migrated to gilroy as a teenager. 

 

I never saw or heard any examples of racism as a kid.  Even hearing about it in school made me be like "damn, what??? really?".

 

Granted, i grew up in suburbs and never in any hardcore city street areas but still, most of my friends were mixed race, all over the place.  I dunno maybe it's just south bay? maybe i'm living in a fantasy world

 

Nah, it's definitely less prevalent and noticeable out here. Being in the Bay, especially SF, kind of puts the world in a bubble. I always forget how gnarly shit can be until I go home to visit.



#43 Berry Woods

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:17 AM

 If this kid was some white-trash, meth-head in Oregon, and the officer was any color, it wouldn't make the news in any capacity.


That's true bruh, dank shit happens to poor people of all types, but the fact is there are a disproportionate amount of poor black people, who endure a disproportionate amount of negative encounters with law enforcement. And a lot of white people are racist, and maybe the most fucked up thing is that it isn't deep rooted ideological racism, it's casual, ignorant racism , but you mix that with guns and badges of authority and this is what happens, inevitably.
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#44 SwampThing

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:59 AM

Living just outside of NYC like i do will give you some perspective on this kind of thing, but I am sure things are very different in Missouri. Just recently the NYPD killed an unarmed man named Eric Garner with a chokehold as he was pleading that he could not breath. There is a heavy racial undertone to this, of course, but to me the NYPD are often just extra-nervous and overly willing to "shoot" first and ask questions later no matter the situation. Police in high crime areas seem to be adopting attitudes more and more disconnected from the human experience, and closer and closer to immediately assuming guilt and utilizing the strongest force they can. Rather than diffusing, talking, they break out their weapons. 

 

In Missouri though, and in that neighborhood especially, the racial component cannot be ignored. I agree that it's notable that this would not have occurred the way it did in many, many, many white neighborhoods across the country. THAT, along with police tactics in general, is the larger issue. Protests wouldn't have become riots with a proper and respectful response from the police. There will be a protest on staten island this weekend regarding Eric Garner. We'll see what happens, but I doubt there will be any rubber bullets, unlike Missouri.

 

I read recently that Iceland just had its first recorded instance of a police officer killing a civilian (he was apparently a mentally ill man wielding a weapon), and the entire country is left reeling. There is, comparatively to most countries, hardly any violent crime in Iceland. Why is that? Well, they have I think the 15th highest amount of guns in the world, so its not that old chestnut. Most icelanders credit the lack of violence to the fact that a staggering 97% of Iceland identifies as middle- or working-class, with <2% identifying as either lower or upper class. This insane economic equality seems to keep tensions to a minimum. When you look at the inequality in towns like Ferguson all across the country, the contrast is alarming.

 

Miss Stress isn't diminishing the importance of this incident, only pointing out that it's an unsurprising point on a well-established timeline.


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#45 Berry Woods

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 12:21 PM

The Death of Eric Garner was also horrific, the contrast with Iceland is interesting, and that's exactly how I read Miss stress's post: this again, this shit has been going on.
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#46 orchidthegreat

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 12:56 PM

And a lot of white people are racist

 

There are lots of racist white people, racist black people, racist Asian people, and so on.  So many people (in this case it's mainly African-American people) sensationalize these events and try to guilt you into believing that the white cop shot a kid just because he was black.  Or "he won't get charged because he's white and he killed a black and no one cares", ETC.  

 

If we don't consider oursleves racist, why are we singling out a white officer killing a black person when WAY worse shit is going on all over the world?  

 

I feel for Michael Ferguson, his family, and all people that are still being hurt in any way by ignorant, racist fucks.  I just have a hard time believing every time an event occurs in which a white harms a black in any way (this time it may have been just an unfortunate and poor decision by Michael that resulted in poor policing, big surprise the police are idiots) that it's "whitey holding us down, whites are racist", blah blah blah.  Our president is African-American for fuck sake.  There may be "a lot of racist white people" but most of us aren't and these events need to stop dividing us.  Since we know the police aren't going to get any better, can we stop singling out Race A vs Race B vs Race C when this ish happens?

 

Also, if it's so disproportionate, show me the stats.  Isn't black on black crime by far the most common?  Why is that not sensationalized by the African-American community?  I'm not trying to be condesending or rude, I'm literally curious about the stats and just trying to keep this thread rollin along and hopefully we all learn a little bit (or a lot) from this.



#47 Noodle Fingers

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:12 PM

In that video where the guy stole two sodas, you should count how many times someone says "HE DEEEEAD BRUH!" But seriously, that shit isn't cool. Is it a police meme to go kill black men now? Is it some kind of game? This has to stop. But me typing on a computer can't do anything, which is the bitter reality of the situation. We can't do anything to combat this. We have to sit here and watch as black people get killed like it's no big deal, and listen to every person in the background of a controversial video say "World Star" or some shit.

 

By the way, I have honestly never heard of anything like this in Canada, although it most definitely has happened before. 30 year old white Americans from the south have something wrong with them. There's no such thing as African-American as far as I'm concerned, because black people are constantly treated as a lesser.

 

And Orchid, the thing is, a black man shoots a black man, he goes to jail, or gets into trouble later somehow. A black man shoots a white man, and he's boned. He goes to jail for at least a long ass time, possibly forever. A white man shoots a black man? 9 times out of 10, he's acquitted.



#48 SwampThing

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

 can we stop singling out Race A vs Race B vs Race C when this ish happens?

 

^ this stance occurs when someone feels that they are being unfairly lumped in with racists whose views they don't share. I get where you're coming from, because what you're saying deep down is that "why can't we all just get along and not worry about races", but unfortunately, racism does exist and is institutionalized particularly within the law enforcement communities of high crime and/or heavily minority neighborhoods. The anger is not just about this incident, it's about a pattern of disproportionately severe and aggressive police (and pseudo-police ie. Zimmerman) focus on minorities. You want to see some fucked up statistics look at incarceration stats.

 

You see black protesters and feel as though they're pointing a finger at you, but they aren't. It's not race war stuff, it's just the demand for equal treatment as humans. As has been said before in this thread, there are MANY white neighborhoods that this stuff would never occur in, and if protesters showed up it wouldn't suddenly become a paramilitary affair.

 

It's not about black vs. white, it's about racists being allowed a bizarre freedom from consequences, and the institutions that seem to help cover their asses rather than disowning them when appropriate.


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#49 orchidthegreat

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:31 PM

And Orchid, the thing is, a black man shoots a black man, he goes to jail, or gets into trouble later somehow. A black man shoots a white man, and he's boned. He goes to jail for at least a long ass time, possibly forever. A white man shoots a black man? 9 times out of 10, he's acquitted.

 

Prove it.  Don't just say it, you're generalizing, and that is technically racist against whites.  Not all 30 year olds from the south are messed up either.  Just like one racist white can give all whites a bad name, an ignorant person of another race saying all whites are racist especially in the south, gives their race a bad name.  

 

In no way am I giving racism a pass, but Swamp, fingers do get pointed at me for shit like this when I voice my opinion.  And guess who's pointing the fingers and calling me a racist?  As a white person, how do I respond?  

 

I whole-heartedly feel bad for what whites have done and are still doing, but I have no part of it and it hurts me a great deal internally when I'm lumped into that racist category when all I want to do is look at the facts of each  individual case and form my own opinion regardless of what degree of melanin the victim or the officer is.



#50 Berry Woods

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:43 PM

I don't have any insight into where you live dude, but in many places shit is very much more real for non caucasians. Prison statistics, arrest, stop and search statistics, income, life expectancy. Earning potential, It's no secret.

#51 Noodle Fingers

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

Obviously not all white people are racist, and often times a white on black crime results in a gun jumping into "racism". Not all crimes of that nature have a race-oriented motive, but I think it's hard to deny, especially in the last few weeks, that this is an anti-black kind of thing.



#52 orchidthegreat

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:51 PM

Not all crimes of that nature have a race-oriented motive, but I think it's hard to deny, especially in the last few weeks, that this is an anti-black kind of thing.

 

The wording of this sentence is confusing me a bit.  Are you saying you believe that Michael Ferguson is dead because he is black and a white police officer saw him and opened fire, strictly due to Michael Ferguson's skin color?  Or the opposite of that?



#53 ynqhead

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:56 PM

Prove it.  Don't just say it, you're generalizing, and that is technically racist against whites.


Treyvon Martin vs Zimmerman is pretty recent proof of what noodles is saying.

Racism has a lot to do with oppression rooting from colonialization. Yes white people can be stereotyped, but when's the last time you read that white people were oppressed due to an imbalance of power?

#54 Noodle Fingers

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:06 PM

 

The wording of this sentence is confusing me a bit.  Are you saying you believe that Michael Ferguson is dead because he is black and a white police officer saw him and opened fire, strictly due to Michael Ferguson's skin color?  Or the opposite of that?

Sorry, I was saying that this spree of killings likely has at least a little to do with the victims being black. I'm not saying EVERY one, but I'm sure at least a few. And not specifically Ferguson, just in general.



#55 mangoes cash

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:15 PM

I haven't really been paying attention to this becasue I'm white and I live in Oregon where racism is far less prevelant.  Our cops downtown ride bicycles and horses most of the time and never go out of their way to start something.
 
But what I'm hearing is:
 
1. Unarmed kid robs store
2. Some witness accounts, including the cop, said there was a physical confrontation and possibly a scuffle for his gun when police rolled up on said kid
3. Kid was shot dead
 
Other witness account say he did not confront or become physical with the cop whatsoever, even though the cop went to the hospital and treated for a minor face injury (probably due to something or someone hitting his face).
 
In a court of law, you're not going to get anywhere with complete opposite witness accounts.
 
12 shots? Complete overkill, not sure why cops don't reach for pepper spray or tasers first.  But in this instance, does it sound like this kid is some angel that just got beat up and murdered by the big bad cops?  Hell no.
 
Now I know I can't speak from an educated position on racism against blacks, because the only racism I've ever been a part of is black people making fun of me for my reflective white skin (which I laugh off, because usually their "insults" are hilarious), but is this really a racist issue?  Really?  If this kid was some white-trash, meth-head in Oregon, and the officer was any color, it wouldn't make the news in any capacity.




As far as your facts, I tend to lean towards the killing was unjust. If there was a struggle for the gun, the cop clearly regained control of it, and shot him, 6 times. In the back. Seems a little more than self defense.

6 times. In the back.



Also, keep in mind, the killing of the other dude a few days later. This is on video and those cops step to the scene super agressive.

#56 SwampThing

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:17 PM

 

you believe that Michael Ferguson is dead because he is black and a white police officer saw him and opened fire, strictly due to Michael Ferguson's skin color?

 

Michael Ferguson lmao


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#57 orchidthegreat

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:20 PM

 Yes white people can be stereotyped, but when's the last time you read that white people were oppressed due to an imbalance of power?

 

I have not, and that's a good point.  I can also never understand how it feels to be oppressed and treated so poorly.  Is this a balance of power issue?  Like I said in a previous post, we do have an African-American president that we voted as a country into office.  

 

Do you think that if we stopped giving positions of power to the most qualified (we probably don't now, that's just what we hope for and say) and just gave them to the most qualified African-Americans that would fix everything?  I'm just not sure where you're coming from with this.  There are reports that Michael Ferguson literally was beating the cop, (Idk what happened, and we never will, I'm just saying) and I know for sure that beating a cop, of any race, in any country, is  not going to end well.

 

Sorry, I was saying that this spree of killings likely has at least a little to do with the victims being black. I'm not saying EVERY one, but I'm sure at least a few. And not specifically Ferguson, just in general.

 

All of the cases that we actually hear about are with black victims because the African-American community is sensationalizing and rioting because of these cases and we never hear about it when the shoe is on the other foot.  Two days after Michael Ferguson's death, an African-American police officer in Salt Lake City, shot and killed an unarmed 20 year old white man.  Did the people in Utah riot? Did we even hear about it on national news or even online?

 

As far as your facts, I tend to lean towards the killing was unjust. If there was a struggle for the gun, the cop clearly regained control of it, and shot him, 6 times. In the back. Seems a little more than self defense.

6 times. In the back.



Also, keep in mind, the killing of the other dude a few days later. This is on video and those cops step to the scene super agressive.

 

Cops roll up aggressively when they're being verbally barraged and threatened, and there are nightly riots in their town.  All killing is unjust IMO.  Like in an earlier post, I said, I wish cops went for their pepper spray and tasers first, at least then no one dies.

 

 

Michael Ferguson lmao

 

Yeah why am I convinced this kid's last name is Ferguson?  Oh snap, it's the town haha.  Hope you were able to follow along with my poor typing and assumptions, I'm typing all this at work and having to click throguh different tabs on my cpu to not get busted for wasting the whole day online.



#58 Grifty-Rodriguez

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:34 PM

My two cents: end of institutionalized racism = end of drug prohibition. Sooooo many black people are in jail for possession. Recent studies suggest that having a parent in jail has worse consequences on a child than having a dead parent. It's lobbying from the prison systems that keeps the shit illegal. That's a bit off topic but still, prohibition is something I'm passionate about. It's institutionalized slavery
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#59 SwampThing

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:43 PM

^ yeah, while it's not exactly directly related to this incident, the goddamn prison "industry" is responsible for so much of this under the surface tension. only 13% of the US population is black and yet 40% of people incarcerated in this country are black. on top of that, the entire US represents 5% of the world's population, and yet we house 25% of the worldwide total of prisoners. that's a lot of fucking prisoners. changes in policies from 1980 till now have quadrupled the amount of people in prison, and needless to say, the new, extra 3/4 are nonviolent offenders, mostly victims of the war on drugs. these new inmates combined with greedy opportunistic shits (basically human traffickers if you think about it) have snowballed the prison system into a for-profit industry



#60 Noodle Fingers

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:44 PM

orchid, that's one white person, and like seven black people's death surround his. And he was probably being a dick anyway. Not saying that the black people who get killed are perfect angels, but killing isn't the right reaction. This is unrelated, but I think all killing is wrong. No one should have the right to take anyone's life, and you'd think that murder laws would reflect that, but the legal system is flawed in some areas too much.






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