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What makes an original producer


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#1 ODK

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:55 AM

How do we do it, how do we know what we are listening to is any good, and learn to make decent beats.
Let's avoid the basic stuff like, opinion and personal taste,like saying it's, my cup of tea, or I like it, is not going to do, your going to have to explain exactly why it's a dam fine beat or sucks outright. Why some people breakout, and shouldn't, and others can't get off the starting blocks, but actually stomp over others. Why are some producers held as legends or genius status, when they're not, Lets see if we can evolve Hiphop within a couple of hours.Might be quite cool to pick a producer and study them together.

I'll start things off with one cat in particular that bugs me and I find generic and a quite a bit of a style biter,
Illmind.

#2 D'MosPhree

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:45 AM

I think one thing that makes or breaks a good hip-hop producer is finding the right people to spit on his or her tracks.

#3 ODK

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:53 AM

I think one thing that makes or breaks a good hip-hop producer is finding the right people to spit on his or her tracks.

Why's that though ?, dam good point, I just had Instrumental beats in mind when starting this off.

#4 James Frank.

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:12 PM

i think there's a few levels of it, like Amway or AVON or some shit lol.
you start with your bottom of the pyramid, that's where we all started at one point or another...
basically meaning your technical skills aren't even up to snuff with making an interesting piece of music the whole way through. you can clearly tell when someone's at this level because of the telltale signs of: repetitive beats, stock drum sounds, little to no usage of samples or fx, mixed too quiet, disharmonious, etc.


with some hard work, you'll make 100+ beats before you realize you fucking suck and move on to bigger and better forms of production...at least that's how my learning curve was. eventually you get to the point where you start tweaking sounds, picking better instrumentation and/or samples, and mixing everything a little better so that it's at least comparably loud to the industry standard--aka the next step up.


this goes on indefinitely for little increments of a producer's career as they get better at their craft, but then there comes a point when they've learned enough of the technical BS to: mix beats well, chop samples up nicely, utilize dynamics, etc...and it's at that point when that artist begins his true progression, i think. everything else before was just K-12 shit. however, there are whole subgenres of hip-hop devoted to styles of production that are stuck somewhere in the above 2-3 levels ^ to the point where everything is dumbed down and especially stale-sounding when compared to producers with more heart.


& finally, that's where i bring my schpiel to a close: heart. there's that weird, intangible thing that good producers have vs. bad producers, putting success aside. you can almost audibly hear when an artist has found their niche in what they do, and feel that it's different and/or better than a very similar track done by a different artist...idk what that is, but what i do know is there are some beats that are dope as hell that i'll just sit stone-faced and think, "wow that's a cool beat" without any emotional response whatsoever. then i'll listen to some other guy/girl's beat and immediately start nodding my head with a smile on my face, sometimes physically saying something like "oh shit!" or "uhhhhh!" haha.


i think it's those producers that are able to catch us off guard like that that are truly the auteurs of our music--but idk what it is that makes them so. sometimes technical expertise goes into it, like when sidechaining was introduced to hip-hop and when LA dudes like Shlohmo started using found sounds in their beats; anytime something comes along that truly sounds different from its predeccesors you gotta give he/she credit where credit is due. but i also think that there were others before Shlohmo and Flylo and Hudmo and all those guys that were doing similar things...but those three are the first we know to do it well--well enough to get signed to notable indie/major labels and make a name for themselves based on their techniques helping them convey their own personal stories to the masses through their music.

either that, or sometimes life throws in a couple mulligans like Devon Gallasby or Hit Boy.

#5 soulREBEL360

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

It used to be a "signature" sound or style that says (such and such) did it. Back in the day it was Pete Rock's signature horns and Preemo's minimal-but-neck-snapping chops and precussions. I'll spare my opinions on the current trends in music production for the sake of this good intelligent discussion.

#6 James Frank.

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:11 PM

i agree with that, and i miss those days when this genre was so new that someone could stand out by something taken for granted nowadays like horn samples and chops. i think it's evolved from that though, to where now an artist doesn't have a single defining element to their music; look at Flying Lotus, dude produces everything from left-field hip-hop to jazz to chiptune to uptempo d&b music. i feel like artists in general are swinging toward this style (or lack of a style) in favor of variation, and so the concept of "originality" is starting to get more and more blurred with time, hence everybody slowly starting to sound like everybody. after an element has been introduced and accepted by the general community, the artist responsible can only be credited as an originator, but not exactly an ongoing 'original' artist.


how are we all not supposed to sound like Madlib and Jay Dee now? loop shitty parts of a track? make our drums sound awful? i think the concept of originality is important in establishing eras of music and defining certain innovators of those eras, and i think those innovators should be championed and praised as they are-- but i also think once the gauntlet has been thrown and someone's music has effectively raised the bar of expectations for the general hip-hop audience, then from that point on all artists should be judged through that gradient shift. an artist can't hold onto "originality" forever, it's a fleeting concept-- if they did things right, then visible changes throughout the industry will occur because of them, and many up-and-coming cats will integrate those "original" techniques into their strategies for beatmaking, and so on.


that's how music works, you never see Roger Waters get mad because everyone utilizes sfx and field recordings into their music now or the members of Kraftwerk pissed off because synthesizers eventually caught on...and the artists that do get mad about things like that are selfish dicks that would rather self-congratulate then actually donate something useful to society as a whole.

#7 Beatronome

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:16 PM

All music has its time and place. If you listen to what someone like Dimlite was doing back in 2003-2006, you could argue that he was a couple of years too soon with what he was doing. You could say good music is timeless but a lot of times we're dependend on what other people like, for good music to surface. And I think the evolution of music is one of reaction to what has been done and at the same time recycling it.

Why are some considered legends? Because they did something that influenced a lot of people. Legends are made by the masses or by a large portion of a niche or sub genre but they're a social construction nonetheless; their status holds no absolute truth. In this sense I don't think that there is anything beyond opinion or personal taste other than the psychological need people have to conform and to identify with certain artists to be part of something.

I don't think you can determine an absolute reason for what makes a good producer. If you'd ask everyone who posts in this thread to name their top 5 producers of all time, you'll find totally different lists based on totally different aspects that that person values. And apart from that, not every track from your favorite producer is a good track. Music is no science.
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#8 Unfolding

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 07:03 PM

@James Frank: Don't you think that overexposure has something to do with your dilemma? Not necessarily overexposure of any particular person but the audience's overexposure to music in general. By hearing lots of one style or closely related styles you run the risk of thinking what you is hear is the limit of the genre.

Try listening to less music and thinking more about what you like about it on a technical level & you'll find something original sooner or later. You can dodge sounding like Madlib & Dilla by not listening to too much Madlib & Dilla or hip hop in general. Know what makes a hip hop beat a hip hop beat and then subvert those norms. Sample genres normally avoided, learning weird scales and chord progressions, work with weird rhythms & instruments. It's actually pretty easy to get an original sound, but a good original sound? That's another problem.

Originality, production skill/experience and being subjectively 'good' are all different. Personally speaking I reckon career guys like Necro & Oddisee aren't great or original producers (both are pretty boring) but they're experienced and people seem to like 'em...

What makes an original producer? Hilarious inner-space journeys.


#9 D'MosPhree

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:23 PM

Why's that though ?, dam good point, I just had Instrumental beats in mind when starting this off.


I think it is because most people can't wrap their head around instrumental hip-hop music. So if you have a nice rapper, you'll get more exposure and the more exposure you get the more likely people will realize your really dope or kinda whack.

#10 MattCoops

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:59 PM

Experimentation.
Cultivating your own unique sound.

#11 James Frank.

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:46 PM

wait...we have a quota for positive votes per day?
why?

i was gonna like MattCoops's post above, but i guess i can't.
maybe i will tomorrow.

#12 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 01:08 AM

Some brilliant ideas and opinions, I'll just swing this back though, an example is Ill minds beats that he crafted for Kanye, anyone heard them this leads to the biting thing I was trying to bring up earlier, but yes this is a respected cat, with a tag of super producer.


Now if you were to make someone a beat would you bite their own style.

#13 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 01:28 AM

I think it is because most people can't wrap their head around instrumental hip-hop music. So if you have a nice rapper, you'll get more exposure and the more exposure you get the more likely people will realize your really dope or kinda whack.

Now that is a dam fucking good point, how many times have you heard the instrumental of a tune, and it's nothing compared to what it was like with the vocal track.

Also got to agree with over saturation of music generally, everyone's a musician now, tech has made that viable, Look at the battles here, Some weeks I see the vote's and they'e all screaming for one beat in particular, I check it out on soundcloud, and it's the same old swing beat Dilla biting shit, it's worse when new battlers come in, and they jump on it too. They're not looking for originality in how you chop, or why do your drums really shit on everyone else's, but they choose to pick what they already like, and we can't get out of the swamp hole, we should of moved on from loops by now, I seriously have issues looping a sample and sticking drums over it, it just doesn't feel like it's mine. Then everyone starts copying the style of the winner because he wins each week, but the candy ass fool. won to many titles, and has basically just bitten a style.
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#14 Jubito

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:17 AM

If you ask me, biting is a natural thing which is essential for an artist to find his own style. It's like school. Everyone of us has someone we look up to or idolize not only when it comes to production but all sorts of activity. It's completely natural to try and mimic something you see, feel or hear, that's what essentially art is. I mean look at J Dilla, he looked up to Pete Rock and he wanted to be like him, make jazzy, soulful beats like him. He made dozens and dozens and dozens of beats and look what he accomplished, he became one of the most respected producers with an unmistakably recognizable signature sound of his own. If you do the biting thing right you eventually find your own sound, in my opinion. It's a paradox though, since some cats get stuck at the biting level while others 'enlighten' themselves through it. At least that's how I see it.
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#15 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:37 AM

If you ask me, biting is a natural thing which is essential for an artist to find his own style. It's like school. Everyone of us has someone he looks up to or idolizes not only when it comes to production but all sorts of activity. It's completely natural to try and mimic something you see, feel or hear, that's what essentially art is. I mean look at J Dilla, he looked up to Pete Rock and he wanted to be like him, make jazzy, soulful beats like him. He made dozens and dozens and dozens of beats and look what he accomplished, he became one of the most respected producers with an unmistakably recognizable signature sound of his own. If you do the biting thing right you eventually find your own sound, in my opinion. It's a paradox though, since some cats get stuck at the biting level while others 'enlighten' themselves through it. At least that's how I see it.

True.....true...we do mimic and copy, but then we're meant to move on adapt what we've learnt.How many beats have you heard through soundcloud etc that have that swing quantise thing going on, Dilla is now the go to teacher, and unfortunately a hell of a lot of people are sounding the same, like you say they're biting, but not to find their own sound. Even Dilla has said get inspiration but don't bite, if the starting point is not in your own head but lies in another's tune, I'd say it's biting. Like the beat above If I was going to make Kanye a beat I wouldn't try to make my beat for him sound like a dam kanye beat.
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#16 Jubito

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:55 AM

True.....true...we do mimic and copy, but then we're meant to move on adapt what we've learnt.How many beats have you heard through soundcloud etc that have that swing quantise thing going on, Dilla is now the go to teacher, and unfortunately a hell of a lot of people are sounding the same, like you say they're biting, but not to find their own sound. Even Dilla has said get inspiration but don't bite, if the starting point is not in your own head but lies in another's tune, I'd say it's biting. Like the beat above If I was going to make Kanye a beat I wouldn't try to make my beat for him sound like a dam kanye beat.

Well said. The Dilla part is completely true. Hell, I won't deny that I try to copy his shit, but I always try to add a touch of my own. That's what differentiates the biters from the ones who get inspiration from something. I ain't saying that I don't bite - damn right I do, but that's just because I don't know and I still have a long way to go. Nonetheless, I always try to be original, and that's what should be done even when biting. Only so will you take what you bit as a lesson. Now that we're at it, I think it's good to mention that experimentation is a key point in finding your own sound. That's why - if you are going to imitate and bite - you should bite many different sounds and styles because these experiences eventually leave a mark on your sound and help shape it, otherwise you'll get stuck at that same sound you bit basically forever.

The Kanye stuff you said got me thinking: should a producer try to fit into the rapper's style of rapping when creating a beat, or should the rapper try to fit the producer's style? What do you guys think?

#17 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:17 AM

Well said. The Dilla part is completely true. Hell, I won't deny that I try to copy his shit, but I always try to add a touch of my own. That's what differentiates the biters from the ones who get inspiration from something. I ain't saying that I don't bite - damn right I do, but that's just because I don't know and I still have a long way to go. Nonetheless, I always try to be original, and that's what should be done even when biting. Only so will you take what you bit as a lesson. Now that we're at it, I think it's good to mention that experimentation is a key point in finding your own sound. That's why - if you are going to imitate and bite - you should bite many different sounds and styles because these experiences eventually leave a mark on your sound and help shape it, otherwise you'll get stuck at that same sound you bit basically forever.

The Kanye stuff you said got me thinking: should a producer try to fit into the rapper's style of rapping when creating a beat, or should the rapper try to fit the producer's style? What do you guys think?

For me no no no no no no no no!!
Think of El-P it's an El-P beat you know it is, or what Dilla did to Bustas Woo Ha, Dilla can work both ways, but I've seen Emcees crumble over some beats and freeze and get frustrated, it's down to them if they got talent then they should be able to rap[ over anything. There'a supernatural battle with Craig G and supernat actually refuse's a beat, I was stunned as this wordsmith God had actually bailed out on stage live, and boy did the crowd let him know, his excuses was it was a bad pick by the DJ, a weak beat. I think I would have to say if you want me to make you a beat why do you want me to change the way I do me.
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#18 soulREBEL360

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:01 AM

i agree with that, and i miss those days when this genre was so new that someone could stand out by something taken for granted nowadays like horn samples and chops. i think it's evolved from that though, to where now an artist doesn't have a single defining element to their music; look at Flying Lotus, dude produces everything from left-field hip-hop to jazz to chiptune to uptempo d&b music. i feel like artists in general are swinging toward this style (or lack of a style) in favor of variation, and so the concept of "originality" is starting to get more and more blurred with time, hence everybody slowly starting to sound like everybody. after an element has been introduced and accepted by the general community, the artist responsible can only be credited as an originator, but not exactly an ongoing 'original' artist.


how are we all not supposed to sound like Madlib and Jay Dee now? loop shitty parts of a track? make our drums sound awful? i think the concept of originality is important in establishing eras of music and defining certain innovators of those eras, and i think those innovators should be championed and praised as they are-- but i also think once the gauntlet has been thrown and someone's music has effectively raised the bar of expectations for the general hip-hop audience, then from that point on all artists should be judged through that gradient shift. an artist can't hold onto "originality" forever, it's a fleeting concept-- if they did things right, then visible changes throughout the industry will occur because of them, and many up-and-coming cats will integrate those "original" techniques into their strategies for beatmaking, and so on.


that's how music works, you never see Roger Waters get mad because everyone utilizes sfx and field recordings into their music now or the members of Kraftwerk pissed off because synthesizers eventually caught on...and the artists that do get mad about things like that are selfish dicks that would rather self-congratulate then actually donate something useful to society as a whole.


Exactly. Producers like Madlib, Dilla, and Flying Lotus nowadays are becoming what Linux is to the world of computer nerds (myself included). There are literaly hundreds (if not thousands) of different "flavors" of Linux currently available that you could get lost while trying to determine which one you're going to use as your daily driver. Through all the flashy animations, special effects, office suites, and customizations, it's still Linux at the core.
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#19 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:22 AM

gotta chip in about flylo, over here most of what he has done got done ten years ago, the bloody nintendo sound thing is so old I'm shocked myself loads of people still love it, the DnB scene really overused most of what he uses, Dilinja, Brocky, Ed Solo, the list goes on and on. Some stuff Lotus does is genius I can't take that away, when he sticks to what he does well, some of his dance stuff is outright terrible, due to this most people I talk to in the Uk don't like what he does as they can see where it's come from. The credit he and others getting for creating the beat scene is ridiculous, I will scream this till I'm blue in the face, but the Anticon crew started the whole Avant Garde weirdo Hiphop way back in the 90's and never got the credit, It's like the Dubstep wobble bass it's been there for years in the DnB scene but no one says anything. It's not innovation either as you have to invent to acheive that.
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#20 Beatronome

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 10:16 AM

Flying Lotus obviously didn't create the beatscene, but he did start a project that gave home to some of the prominent artists in and around LA at the time (who before Brainfeeder came were only locally known by Low End Theory gigs). Brainfeeder is his project and gave a really strong spark to the further development of the scene and making it known worldwide. No one would've put Flying Lotus, Gaslamp Killer and Daedelus (who had been around for years) in the same box were it not for Brainfeeder.

Also, innovation is really relative, everything is inspired by something. Some things are just camouflaged better than others or become more prominent and distinct. The wobble bass for example has been around way before DnB.

#21 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:00 AM

For me no no no no no no no no!!
Think of El-P it's an El-P beat you know it is, or what Dilla did to Bustas Woo Ha, Dilla can work both ways, but I've seen Emcees crumble over some beats and freeze and get frustrated, it's down to them if they got talent then they should be able to rap[ over anything. There'a supernatural battle with Craig G and supernat actually refuse's a beat, I was stunned as this wordsmith God had actually bailed out on stage live, and boy did the crowd let him know, his excuses was it was a bad pick by the DJ, a weak beat. I think I would have to say if you want me to make you a beat why do you want me to change the way I do me.


As an older guy, I have to say this was Dilla's lowest moment. The beat is hackneyed. (I was going to go on about Busta as an MC but thought better of it).

An ELP beat is an ELP beat, true. But, without Vast Aire, etc. those beats are nothing. The MC is more important that you are leading on.

@Jubito-yes you have to tailor the beat to the MC.

#22 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

If you ask me, biting is a natural thing which is essential for an artist to find his own style. It's like school. Everyone of us has someone we look up to or idolize not only when it comes to production but all sorts of activity. It's completely natural to try and mimic something you see, feel or hear, that's what essentially art is. I mean look at J Dilla, he looked up to Pete Rock and he wanted to be like him, make jazzy, soulful beats like him. He made dozens and dozens and dozens of beats and look what he accomplished, he became one of the most respected producers with an unmistakably recognizable signature sound of his own. If you do the biting thing right you eventually find your own sound, in my opinion. It's a paradox though, since some cats get stuck at the biting level while others 'enlighten' themselves through it. At least that's how I see it.


With all due respect biting is only cool if it was Luke or John trying to sound like Jesus. Otherwise its wack. You do not need to start biting Dilla. Yes, he idolized Pete Rock. Yes, Pete Rock's stuff evokes definite memories for me too. But, the point that ODK makes is 100% accurate in my opinion.

To many monkeys trying to make that fucking mix. Everyone is simply a clone.

You never want to just focus on one style. Do you know how hard it was for me to not have a Dilla beat come to me subconsiously, given my preference for the tracks that he was on. Do you know how many blunts I blazed to those-wack in the day?

I think your influences are many which is a good thing. I know that you are fan of the boom bap, which I think is a good thing. Really, you are actually doing it differently than others and you also have a better understanding than most of these other dudes oing it.

#23 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

gotta chip in about flylo, over here most of what he has done got done ten years ago, the bloody nintendo sound thing is so old I'm shocked myself loads of people still love it, the DnB scene really overused most of what he uses, Dilinja, Brocky, Ed Solo, the list goes on and on. Some stuff Lotus does is genius I can't take that away, when he sticks to what he does well, some of his dance stuff is outright terrible, due to this most people I talk to in the Uk don't like what he does as they can see where it's come from. The credit he and others getting for creating the beat scene is ridiculous, I will scream this till I'm blue in the face, but the Anticon crew started the whole Avant Garde weirdo Hiphop way back in the 90's and never got the credit, It's like the Dubstep wobble bass it's been there for years in the DnB scene but no one says anything. It's not innovation either as you have to invent to acheive that.

THIS.
First off, I will state that I agree with everything that ODK--and most too often side with his opinions.

I can't find the post, but I think it was the first one in the thread or something by James Frank--calling the guy with the stupid name Flying Lotus a genius because he blends so many styles?????

I had been doing that forever....DnB was absolutely blessed by Brits---

I would trade Beattapes with my boy in LA back when you guys were zygotes and no one was doing that shit back then--but we did not considerate to be innovative. It was just the right bpm to be rocking with.

No worries ODK--I feel what you are saying. I was doing weird avant-garde way long ago. But, do not forget : people were on their own shit and were not thinking about the musical landscape and everyone has become a biter.

I recently was invited to one of MCs' apartment for a holiday party. He had a friend there that was younger (late 20's) So I was at home talking with dude--it seemed like we were way well-matched...and the idea of FLYING Lotus came up---I was all--fuck this dude---fuck all these dilla biting ass bitches and badlid wannabees--and he was like no--this beat scene is a force to be reckon with--

I still dont get it. The least I can say is that I am trying. I fucking hate video game music. Thats not beat-making.

I will look up that dudes beats sometime--but when I did, because I was like?? who the fuck is flylo? --I was like this shit sucks.

Would someone like to mention how he is important? I think people smoke too much weed.

#24 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:42 AM

Flying Lotus obviously didn't create the beatscene, but he did start a project that gave home to some of the prominent artists in and around LA at the time (who before Brainfeeder came were only locally known by Low End Theory gigs). Brainfeeder is his project and gave a really strong spark to the further development of the scene and making it known worldwide. No one would've put Flying Lotus, Gaslamp Killer and Daedelus (who had been around for years) in the same box were it not for Brainfeeder. Also, innovation is really relative, everything is inspired by something. Some things are just camouflaged better than others or become more prominent and distinct. The wobble bass for example has been around way before DnB.

Daedelus is on Anticon man and has been for years. don't mean to pick holes, but can you give me an audio example of how and where the wobble bass was used before DnB. Brainfeeder is fair enough, but then Warp records have been doing it all ready for years. Like I'm trying to say it's all been done and the guy gets way to much praise for nearly inventing what already exists, and has been done better. Innovation is important but that's not what is happening.

#25 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

As an older guy, I have to say this was Dilla's lowest moment. The beat is hackneyed. (I was going to go on about Busta as an MC but thought better of it). An ELP beat is an ELP beat, true. But, without Vast Aire, etc. those beats are nothing. The MC is more important that you are leading on. @Jubito-yes you have to tailor the beat to the MC.

Holmes you must of listened to Little Johnny From The Hospital, pure beat art, and if there were vocals it would of recked it, but I got to agree that new Can Ox album don't sound right without EL-P, or is it Vast Aire don't sound good without an El-P beat. He also sounds dam dope over his own beats as well.
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#26 ODK

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:20 PM

THIS. First off, I will state that I agree with everything that ODK--and most too often side with his opinions. I can't find the post, but I think it was the first one in the thread or something by James Frank--calling the guy with the stupid name Flying Lotus a genius because he blends so many styles????? I had been doing that forever....DnB was absolutely blessed by Brits--- I would trade Beattapes with my boy in LA back when you guys were zygotes and no one was doing that shit back then--but we did not considerate to be innovative. It was just the right bpm to be rocking with. No worries ODK--I feel what you are saying. I was doing weird avant-garde way long ago. But, do not forget : people were on their own shit and were not thinking about the musical landscape and everyone has become a biter. I recently was invited to one of MCs' apartment for a holiday party. He had a friend there that was younger (late 20's) So I was at home talking with dude--it seemed like we were way well-matched...and the idea of FLYING Lotus came up---I was all--fuck this dude---fuck all these dilla biting ass bitches and badlid wannabees--and he was like no--this beat scene is a force to be reckon with-- I still dont get it. The least I can say is that I am trying. I fucking hate video game music. Thats not beat-making. I will look up that dudes beats sometime--but when I did, because I was like?? who the fuck is flylo? --I was like this shit sucks. Would someone like to mention how he is important? I think people smoke too much weed.

Yeah man I did the whole Avant Garde thing as well then I realized it sounded shit, and most my mates agreed, they just didn't want to upset me ha ha!!, 1999 me and my mate decided to make an ep that was Hiphop but had DnB bassline sounds in it, that just came from slowing down a DnB tune and realizing how Phat it sounded, fast forward a few years and Dubstep pops up. Sound is weird if you play heavy guitar as in a metal sound to Happy hardcore, it's actually punk.

When I see a boiler room gig the first thing that I see is a lot of faces concentrating and moving individually to each other, but over the same beat, there doesn't seem to be any vibe, or the whole crowd rocking their heads off as one, what it looks like to me is a lot of the crowd don't have a clue what is going on and are actually trying to work out what the hell the noise is, and what is the artist doing.

The London Broken Beat scene has a lot to answer for with this L.A beat scene, think it was Kutma that had something to do with the origins. I know it's not Flying Lotus, but it's the saturated misinformed knowledge that is buggering up keeping tabs on the origins of stuff, then the younguns are all " Fuckin ell mate that Flylo bloke just invented distorted guitar" or " His beats will pave the way for the future" (only if you jump off a cliff), see what I did there complete genius, it means there is no future for this Ha ha!! (Sorry getting carried away).
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#27 Beatronome

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:48 PM

Daedelus is on Anticon man and has been for years. don't mean to pick holes, but can you give me an audio example of how and where the wobble bass was used before DnB. Brainfeeder is fair enough, but then Warp records have been doing it all ready for years. Like I'm trying to say it's all been done and the guy gets way to much praise for nearly inventing what already exists, and has been done better. Innovation is important but that's not what is happening.

Daedelus released Righteous Fists of Harmony on Brainfeeder when it started kicking off and only his latest album was released on Anticon.

As for wobbles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rzr1Khs91k

I came across drone/psychedelic stuff from the '70s a while ago as well but I can't find it anymore. Possibly Klaus Schulze or other Tangerine Dream members related...

And DnB and Dubstep are way more related than they are with the music I'm talking about of course. But it's not like wobble basses was a consequence of DnB happening, people could make wobble basses since they had the equipment for it. Sure DnB helped popularize it more, but they didn't invent it. And if innovation is just the same as popularizing something than you'd also have to admit that FlyLo is innovative, but I agree with you on him getting too much praise, on the other hand I can understand where it comes from...

Just making the point that innovation is relative.
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#28 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 01:43 PM

^That shit sucks.

#29 soulREBEL360

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:01 PM

Beats like the one just posted had a certain warmth about them due to the fact that it was created before the age of digital gear and virtual instruments. Can't say that they were all good (like this particular beat, for instance) but what sets it aside is the fact that it carried the warmth that only analogue equipment can produce. Take Mort Garson, for example ...

#30 Unfolding

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:24 PM

OK so maybe I got a little lost here but what does Flying Lotus have to do with drum'n'bass? Can't think of any of his music that comes close to it. Haven't listened to loads of d'n'b either but I can't pick many of his production techniques that you'd hear with some of the big names like Roni Size or Goldie...

innovation is relative

^Truth!

As cool as ODK's mate sounds by doing hip hop with slowed down d'n'b in 99, slowed down d'n'b with hip hop rhythms had been done a few years prior by groups like Techno Animal. Check this at the 5:30 mark, it was published in '96. Pretty sure Scorn & TA had been doing stuff like this earlier too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP9aNbGlgb8
But that doesn't mean that ODK's mate was biting 'cause it's not like Techno Animal were big or part of a poplular scene. Chances are both experimented & came to the same conclusion: slowed d'n'b rules.

Oh yeah, the inventor of the wobble was the dude/dudette that designed the low frequency oscillator & hooked it up to their low pass filter.




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