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#31 Jubito

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:10 PM

There's nothing special about Banksy, if you ask me. And I'm not misinterpreting it, it's just that there are other, more talented street artists than him, in my opinion. And yes, I've heard of the aforementioned artists and no, they didn't make up the foundations of the graffiti movement but yes, they've participated in spreading it and developing what we call 'street art', and that happened when graffiti started to expand from where it firstly started (the streets) to the galleries, which basically involved all the bigger names on the scene, real bombers being the only exception.
As style was the most important part of being a graffiti artist, it was bound to blow at some point, since there was a rather impressive number of people involved with it, each of them having (or at least trying to develop) their own particular style.
So I wouldn't call misinterpreting it, it's just liking a different form of graffiti better, which in this case happens to be one of the earliest ones (after tagging) on which the rest of the movement was founded. It's always been about sending trying to get your name/message across, and all of the mentioned artists succeeded in doing so, can't argue about that.
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#32 Dirty Cyclist

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:15 PM

"The famed Banksy has been quoted for saying "Every time I think I've painted something slightly original, I find out that Blek Le Rat has done it as well. Only twenty years earlier...""

http://www.fecalface...ion=com_content

#33 Dirty Cyclist

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:40 PM

Banksy's problem is he makes it look too easy, therefore haters think what he does is simple. I find a lot of his work inspiring. Sure, it is not as time intensive as a big piece done by hand, but some of his images are stunning the first time you see them. I really like this one: http://www.banksy-wa...r-wallpaper.jpg
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#34 James Frank.

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 05:52 PM

if style is so important, then why does every single tagger i know spray the same exact way? it's very, very rare that i come across a piece of graffiti that is truly unique...like i said, it's become less of an artistic statement and more of a "fuck you, look what i'm doing to your nice building-- E's up, bitch!" kinda thing. Banksy is basically taking academic, didactic art (meaning something that has a message) and putting it on the street through installations, stencils, and what have you...therefore completely bypassing the need for overpriced art galleries inflating the value of seeing his work (which we all know has ended up backfiring in that his works are now considered some of the most expensive on the market now). that's the diff between him and other graffiti artists; he has a clear understanding of the visual arts, and is breaking ground new to fine art by incorporating elements of what is now called street art, and most if not all his pieces can be dissected just as much as a Gaugin or a De Koonig. compare that to dudes literally just spraying up their name on a wall to say, "i was here. respect me" there's not much of a message there, you have to admit.



also, before i start getting hate-filled responses, i realize there are exceptions to the rule. but i don't think it's really shocking for someone to say that a good 9/10 pieces you'll find on the street are exactly what i was talking about above, without much if any artistic merit whatsoever...because you'd know it's true if you've ever walked around in a city.
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#35 DJ Pete Marriott

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:00 PM

Hey guys,

I'm seeing way too much anger building up here. I'm going to fall back and hopefully find a way to unfollow this topic, because I see a shitstorm brewing and I want no parts of it.
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#36 James Frank.

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:15 PM

I see a shitstorm brewing and I want no parts of it.


isn't that how all of these threads end up? lol

#37 Tastik BEATS

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

i think a lot of dudes on this thread are misinterpreting the foundations of graffiti thinking that it can only be rough-hewn bubble letters sprayed by black/hispanic dudes calling out their crews or gangs...smh at your guys' ignorance, if you read up on your history you'd be well aware of dudes like Basquiat, Richard Hambleton, Blek le Rat, and most notably Keith Haring-- a white, homosexual man who garnered the respect of the entire hip-hop & fine-art worlds simultaneously. foh with your "only i know what art is" BS, the whole point of art, especially in the postmodern, is subjectivity. you don't have to like it, but saying it isn't art makes you just sound like an elitist douche.


Banksy is overated though. he is for poser's. Iam not saying he is bad though

I know basquiat. did an art assignment on him

#38 ODK

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:34 PM

Through all of this opinionated view on Banksy, not one of you has mentioned the IRONY in most of his work, even if you hate him, you can't deny how clever some of the topics are. First of the guy is British, not French, the french dude is just pissed at Banksy for biting I guess, we caught him doing a piece on the side of a pub in Brighton doing 2 coppers getting it on, he's alright, totally knows he's playing the masse's, and finds it very amusing people cut chunks of walls out to have a piece of his art . I don't agree with how his work has been pushed, is loved and yet true graf is still looked upon, with one eyebrow raised, and totally misunderstood.
Tastik let your teachers tell you it's street art, because it wouldn't be there without Graf, then you can teach those fools where it really originated from and what it's about, It ain't graf if your not stealing the paint. The crazy thing is he gets paid, but the rest of us have to pay fines if we're caught.

#39 Tastik BEATS

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:15 PM

Through all of this opinionated view on Banksy, not one of you has mentioned the IRONY in most of his work, even if you hate him, you can't deny how clever some of the topics are. First of the guy is British, not French, the french dude is just pissed at Banksy for biting I guess, we caught him doing a piece on the side of a pub in Brighton doing 2 coppers getting it on, he's alright, totally knows he's playing the masse's, and finds it very amusing people cut chunks of walls out to have a piece of his art . I don't agree with how his work has been pushed, is loved and yet true graf is still looked upon, with one eyebrow raised, and totally misunderstood.
Tastik let your teachers tell you it's street art, because it wouldn't be there without Graf, then you can teach those fools where it really originated from and what it's about, It ain't graf if your not stealing the paint. The crazy thing is he gets paid, but the rest of us have to pay fines if we're caught.


you got a point. Iam in the mood to start writing again lol
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#40 BroKing

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 02:22 AM

i think a lot of dudes on this thread are misinterpreting the foundations of graffiti thinking that it can only be rough-hewn bubble letters sprayed by black/hispanic dudes calling out their crews or gangs...smh at your guys' ignorance, if you read up on your history you'd be well aware of dudes like Basquiat, Richard Hambleton, Blek le Rat, and most notably Keith Haring-- a white, homosexual man who garnered the respect of the entire hip-hop & fine-art worlds simultaneously. foh with your "only i know what art is" BS, the whole point of art, especially in the postmodern, is subjectivity. you don't have to like it, but saying it isn't art makes you just sound like an elitist douche.


hahaha white people always claiming shit there were black people that started graffiti not blek le rat and keith haring idiot white washed coon
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#41 Jubito

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 03:07 AM

if style is so important, then why does every single tagger i know spray the same exact way? it's very, very rare that i come across a piece of graffiti that is truly unique...like i said, it's become less of an artistic statement and more of a "fuck you, look what i'm doing to your nice building-- E's up, bitch!" kinda thing. Banksy is basically taking academic, didactic art (meaning something that has a message) and putting it on the street through installations, stencils, and what have you...therefore completely bypassing the need for overpriced art galleries inflating the value of seeing his work (which we all know has ended up backfiring in that his works are now considered some of the most expensive on the market now). that's the diff between him and other graffiti artists; he has a clear understanding of the visual arts, and is breaking ground new to fine art by incorporating elements of what is now called street art, and most if not all his pieces can be dissected just as much as a Gaugin or a De Koonig. compare that to dudes literally just spraying up their name on a wall to say, "i was here. respect me" there's not much of a message there, you have to admit.


Because when graffiti first started, it was mostly about getting your name up, it was like marking your territory. Why do you think being all-city was so important at the time? But then people realized it could be used to deliver a message. The two styles have developed to a point where we can consider them as two separate things. There are some who adhere to the original graffiti approach, bombing etc.(yes, bombers do have style), which frankly doesn't leave you with much time on your hands when you're out spraying; and those who tend to express themselves in a different manner, tending to leave a message behind their work, which would be 'street art'. And you can't tell me that painting some stencils takes more skill than painting a 20 ft x 6 ft mural (I ain't saying stencils don't require skill, they do...I still can't figure out how they realized some of the complex ones).
This is the thing which bugs me about so called 'modern art', 'wow look I put a black dot on a blank canvas, bet you didn't think of that!' (this isn't correlated with Banksy, I'm just talking about modern art in general). But yeah, dadaism is to partially to blame for the direction figurative art has taken since the beginning of the 20th century. And don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on your opinion, I just wanted to make it clear that your statement isn't completely true because remember, street art evolved from graffiti (which was, as I already said, largely about putting your name up, but also a way to express yourself).
I'll always prefer 'traditional' graffiti to street art, you on the other hand seem to prefer street art and I'm cool with that. Let's just be objective about the facts at least.

On a side note, have you watched 'Style Wars'? If not, I strongly recommend it.

Here's some Lush humor:

Posted Image

No offense intended to anyone.
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#42 Tastik BEATS

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 03:30 AM

My opinion

Graffiti > street art

Most people who call banksy the only real graffiti artist need to learn to respect the culture. people want banksy to put a sticker on there wall. but if a tagger does this...

Posted Image

they call it vandalism.

Spray paint > Glue

#43 Jubito

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 03:35 AM

^ Does was actually not the best of examples dude, most of his walls are legal and you can't call him a tagger because he strictly 'does' (yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhh) immense pieces. But yeah I'm getting what you're saying, there are writers who are able to illegally pull off crazy skilled pieces and are overlooked because it's not something that might have a message, while still being an artistic expression.

#44 SwampThing

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:13 AM

anybody in here who hates bansky and is not some kind of graffiti artist themselves?
hmm...
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#45 Tastik BEATS

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 03:32 PM

anybody in here who hates bansky and is not some kind of graffiti artist themselves?
hmm...


I used to...





^ Does was actually not the best of examples dude, most of his walls are legal and you can't call him a tagger because he strictly 'does' (yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhh) immense pieces. But yeah I'm getting what you're saying, there are writers who are able to illegally pull off crazy skilled pieces and are overlooked because it's not something that might have a message, while still being an artistic expression.


I know it's not the best example. Just something I found quickly on the web

#46 Guts

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 12:19 AM

I agree with Banksy's subject matter, which is enough for me, and probably all he wants.

#47 Jubito

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:38 AM

anybody in here who states that art is a subjective thing and won't themselves sarcastically deride those who are not paired with their tastes?
hmm...

#48 SwampThing

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

did I somehow deride you? hmmm.

I didn't think I did. I was honestly wondering. But I guess I got my answer. I didn't even state my opinion, did I? I'm not in the scene myself, but I know/knew people who are doing their thing in the graf community. And I'm no street art expert, so don't get all elitist on me, but I know a dozen heads or so. I was curious because I would find it amazing that people (not in the scene themselves) are that worked up about hating Banksy just over his art. I don't think Bansky has ever stated anything like "I'm the best graf artist in the world", and I don't think anybody in here has either. This was just a convo about Banksy's little NYC residency, not some kind of "Banksy's the best" thread. MWBOOGIE came in and i guess trolled it up, I don't know.

I wouldn't call his art "nothing special" really, because to me he's been successfully producing many playful, thought-provoking pieces over many years, all without being apprehended, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. I must say though, your reasoning really sounds to me, as someone outside but familiar with that scene, like you guys are just really bitter that Banksy is getting paid, getting famous, and getting his name out there (when all he's really doing is just some simple stencil work for god's sake!!!) You hate Banksy! why? Because...there are other, more talented dudes out there! well...what does that have to do with him and his work even if true? Nobody in here is paying six figures for a Banksy print so you don't need to come complaining to US about how your work gets painted over while his gets sold at auction. That's rough man, if I could I'd make people just as interested in traditional graffiti again. I love Style Wars! But like you said, to each their own and if the masses want to love Banksy more than traditional graf, ce la vie right?

You've expressed a distaste or non-comprehension of modern art. What you guys are talking about is like comparing Pollock to Vermeer to Warhol, you can't look at an artist and say "My kid could paint that!" or "He's just putting up a sticker!". Art isn't judged based on those criteria, or my 85-year-old neighbor who spends six months laboriously painting a single horrible oil painting would be the greatest artist alive. You guys can like traditional graffiti just as much as you do without feeling this animosity towards Banksy, since in your own words he's completely separated from it (except that he's getting recognition and your thing isn't so much, at this point). It's hard for me to take "Bansky's stuff is just not that good" seriously, because while it's usually on the simpler side, it's almost always successful in the way that he wants it to be. His stuff almost always makes people stop, look, laugh, tell their friends, etc. even when they don't know that it's the famous Banksy. His stuff often interacts with the environment around it in a humorous or reality-bending or (dare I say it again?) thought-provoking way. And a really good tag can...sometimes accomplish that, yes. They don't always fade into the background. Much to my dismay (I don't know if you know or care about it) they recently set to demolish 5 Pointz, a traditional graffiti mecca in Queens NY, full of incredible work by people who probably don't get the recognition they deserve. But that's not Banksy's fault.

#49 Jubito

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:52 AM

My post was not directed towards you (check the posts on the previous and current page and then deduce who they were directed to), mimicking yours was just a good way to shape it. And yes, I've been following the current issue concerning 5 Pointz. I'm also concerned of the fact that I personally haven't stated any hate towards his work, I just said I don't find it too special (if any of you think that this can be taken as an insult towards Banksy then you'd might wanna check yourself and make sure that your appreciation of his work hasn't reached idolization) yet you're making it look like I wrote an essay on how much I hate him, his work, etc. I'm still unsure about where I mentioned me being involved in the scene, though (or did the things I wrote make you conclude I was?).
As I already said, I'm cool with everyone having their own opinion, as long as you're being objective with the facts. I respect yours because you tried to look on the subject from both points of view and you backed up your arguments in a rational manner. That salty comment pissed me off though because I tried stating my opinion in an educated manner. I don't know if it was the picture that you found provoking, I didn't intend it to be that way. I think this thread has had enough derailing so I'll just leave for the moment. Peace.

#50 SwampThing

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 12:51 PM

Nah no offense meant or anything, I just got the impression that you (and others, wasn't just talking to you) strongly dislike Banksy's work (which you don't, I guess, you just think it's nothing to write home about, if you saw one on the street you wouldn't stop or laugh or tell your friends about it) and your only real reasoning behind it was that it was "simple" compared to the more time/labor(arguably /skill) intensive traditional spray paint work. And it's important (I think) to note that while many graffiti artists are out there trying to impress with sheer painting ability, Banksy isn't one of them. His work is (I always thought) purposefully transient. He rarely works with colors. Some of his shit is just jokey but a lot of it is politically oriented, or at the very least really trying to get you to look at the world or just your surroundings in a different way. Whereas, from what I've experienced, traditional graf is way more about showcasing an artist's talents with the paint on the blank canvas of a wall (and of course there are all the trespassing, illegal-tagging aspects of that world which overlap to some extent with "street art" scene). Like I said, it's thus pretty hard to compare the two really, but it seemed to me that your feelings about Banksy are rooted in your deep love for traditional graffiti, rather than looking at the stuff he does objectively. Unless you think there's no room for high-brow, cheeky humor in the street art scene.

I don't worship or really even keep up on the man, I honestly don't remember the last time I thought too hard about him before he came to my home state. But my point was, I know a few people who are graffiti artists who absolutely hate Banksy and I know a few people who are street artists who absolutely worship him, and pretty much everybody ELSE I know just likes him and enjoys his work in passing. Just my opinion of course, but I think most everyday people would probably enjoy him visiting their city even if he wasn't famous. I think it all has to do with peoples' personal investments in the scene. It reminds me of the "Is DOOM a good producer?" thread, where people who are clearly beat-makers themselves went on about how "average" DOOM is on the boards. Off-topic I know, but applicable.

#51 James Frank.

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 01:07 PM

Posted Image

[10-21-13]
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#52 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:03 PM

MWBOOGIE came in and i guess trolled it up, I don't know.


I never really said much about it. Boring and pop imagery. Who in the world likes that? Maybe someone who grew up shopping at Urban Outskirters. A bad creation of postmodernity not much unlike an internet blogger. Social commentary is a necessity, but, what was wrong with the what the original writers were doing in their era? So many of you are disconnected from this, but, some have long studied both graff writers throughout the years and actual art history.

I think Tastic and Jubito covered a bit of the bullet points.

A couple of guys who were considered originators are a friend of a friend. Maybe I have too much loyalty and respect to originators in any art. That is just how I roll from the zygote stage. I am not trying to read someone else's interpretation of the gospels.

Out of the international set I can name a couple that I really respect and dig--as a pure art form. But, if you really wish to know how one feels about this, well maybe you should get to know some older guys that were trying to get up.

No real synthesis here: there are diametrically opposed points.

I did not like Harig, but loved the works of Basquiat. Warhol was absurdly terrible. Lichtenstein had merit.
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#53 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:18 PM

Your attempt at being condescending to strangers on the internet is how do we say... successful.

by all rights have an opinion, just don't be a cunt about it please.


Don't let your Jordans get all unlaced guy. Age and experience is a grand modifier.

See Broking's intentionally absurd posts for edification. We are discussing matters of taste, here--I thought. It's as easy as saying that I always preferred rolling a perfect blunt to other forms. Check Jubito for some knowledge from a younger.

#54 SwampThing

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:06 PM

I think the point he was making is that even age and experience don't entitle one to expressing their opinions in a condescending and dismissive manner. And you are, as you admit, biased by a two-degree connection to the founders of graffiti. If you are truly as versed in art history as you say I would think you'd be familiar with the surprising power of pop imagery as it's emerged in the past 50 years.

I'm surprised your respect for Kool Herc has not prevented you from enjoying Stones Throw's artists!

Anyway in central park some guys set up a stand selling fake Banksy prints that sold out in an hour, which certainly says, in their words, something interesting about the nature of hype and the value of art.

#55 mangoes cash

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:55 PM

Banksy is extremely talented. His subversive sense of humour and social commentary is unmatched. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise, and suggest he is with out talent are probably people who eat and Pizza Hut and live with thier grandmas.

#56 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:52 PM

Honestly, I do not intend to be condescending at all. Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation. I think you could surmise from my last post that I sort of dislike the pop imagery. I lack the desire to go into a detailed examination of the multifarious angles that makes me consider his art to be without any appeal as compared to the works of others. I never liked the "street art" moniker and I just noted the odd cultishness that followed some of the more contemporary artists. I recall some wide-eyed fans of Neckface. Cheeky yes-but full of deficits.

I really do not have the desire to come of as contentious. Personally, I dig the NY graff writers and always have. I looked to them for their vibrant use of color. They did so much with so very little. Stencils just do not compare in my opinion. I lost a bit of reverence for it when some years back an impressionable white kid from a modest background lost his life over a graff turf war. It was very sad. I could have been off on the lad's socioeconomic makeup, but I am pretty sure that I am on. The art itself has created destruction. So many others have died in railroad yards, on tracks or from a sudden fall or electrocution. It saddens me to no end that these lads' stories are rarely known-and when they are-they are rarely recognized.

Getting up was the intention from the beginning since an immigrant decided to start scrawling his name and hood on some walls for other to see.

Tied to this were the messages such as those that were etched on other surfaces throughout antiquity as a sort of social message.
This is why Basquiat was special. By comparison, Banksy thumbs his nose at the establishment; specifically commercialism and elitism; however, his art is of the most post-modern variety that seems to take no skill and bereft of quality.

When I see the print in the vid with the hooligan throwing the flower pot sprayed through the stencil on the canvas--I kind of cringe.
Sorry, I just do not see quality and really I have little time to rate it otherwise as life is short--just had a friend inform me that he has been sick for a number of months.

Pretty good discussion that has mostly been free of ad-hominem attacks at personality.

#57 GC90

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:16 PM

anybody in here who hates bansky and is not some kind of graffiti artist themselves?
hmm...


I wouldn't say I hate Banksy, but that shit is overrated.

#58 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:16 PM

I am still awaiting someone to post a decent stencil of his. Here I will try to find one on my own...

Personally I hold art to a high standard and if I feel that I can perform the artwork of the particular artist myself--it isn't art since I am not a master painter...

Not going to say that the totality of his art is meritless...the stuff he did in London was decent. This this piece is full of panache; I feel like this piece is full of merit:

http://streetartlond...reet-fitzrovia/

#59 mangoes cash

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:00 AM

I think Banksy is more about the message. I admit, some / a lot of graff pieces in the traditional sense have much more visual impact, for sure. But the message in Banksy's work is the counter weight.

#60 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:19 AM

I like art, music and God. When the creations of the aforementioned get confused in some odd way, I can get kind of embittered in the old soul: http://www.miamihera...r-tasering.html

Sad that there are so many deaths that have occurred.




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