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Is a beat only as good as its sample?


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#1 DJ Projexion

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:32 AM

Okay bear with me here, I was thinking of some of my favorite beats of all time and I couldn't help but acknowledge that the reason I love them so much is because I love the original sample so much. Which brings me back to my original question. Any thoughts?

#2 asterikss

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:48 AM

..you can make a good beat out of a crapy song cause you can cut only those parts you like and the rest of teh song (the crappy part) is not there + you add the drums, bass and other stuff.. anyway you are right for some part of your question..

#3 Svetnik

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:49 AM

Yeah, as long the beat is based on a sample the sample is the most important part. But I wouldn't say that a beat is only as good as it's sample, you know, the drums, bass and a lot of other shit is important. I mean not everyone can make a good beat with a good sample, I bet there are producers out there, who are too stupid to make a good beat even if they have a perfect sample. So my Opinon is, the sample is for the beat very important but the isn't only as good as it's sample.

#4 godzilla

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:50 AM

lots of beats come from shitty shitty smooth jazz.

#5 DAWHUD

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:50 AM

Well... that one track Alchemist did for Mobb Deep with "She Blinded Me With Science" was dope. The original song, although a psudo 80s hit is corny as hell. Alchemist made that shit sound gangsta' and something you'd want to ride or dance to. I'll try to think of other songs for examples.

#6 soulmakossa

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:18 AM

I'll compare the visual artist with the hip hop producer and their work of art/painting, and what I feel is needed for success in creating a finished product on various levels.

-quality and quantity of an artists materials = producer and quality of equipment (MPC, keyboards, etc.) materials used (quality and quantity of sounds & records)

-creative mind & imagination of artist = creative ear mind & imagination of producer

People like Pete Rock, Jay Dee & Hi Tek stand out for their unique ear and imagination, like great artists in a museum who have a unique eye.

-time, study & effort of artist in creative process = time, study & effort of the producer in creative process (gathering of samples and ideas for final beat)

You can pretty much tell different producers and artists apart for their level of patience, time and effort shown in their work.

-objective eye of the artist to correct, self-critique and improve the work of art = objective ear and mind of the producer to correct, self-critique and improve the music.

Producers throughout history stand out from the effort they put in to find the right parts that'll work, rather than settling for less. Overall, it's basically the person behind the machine and sample they have to make the whole thing work, whether they use that one sample or find other pieces to go with it.


If you'd like to hear an example of music I do based on these theories, here you go:
http://odeo.com/audio/6745133/view

and an example of my artistic side here:

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#7 DJ Projexion

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:48 PM

I'll compare the visual artist with the hip hop producer and their work of art/painting, and what I feel is needed for success in creating a finished product on various levels.

-quality and quantity of an artists materials = producer and quality of equipment (MPC, keyboards, etc.) materials used (quality and quantity of sounds & records)

-creative mind & imagination of artist = creative ear mind & imagination of producer

People like Pete Rock, Jay Dee & Hi Tek stand out for their unique ear and imagination, like great artists in a museum who have a unique eye.

-time, study & effort of artist in creative process = time, study & effort of the producer in creative process (gathering of samples and ideas for final beat)

You can pretty much tell different producers and artists apart for their level of patience, time and effort shown in their work.

-objective eye of the artist to correct, self-critique and improve the work of art = objective ear and mind of the producer to correct, self-critique and improve the music.

Producers throughout history stand out from the effort they put in to find the right parts that'll work, rather than settling for less. Overall, it's basically the person behind the machine and sample they have to make the whole thing work, whether they use that one sample or find other pieces to go with it.


Nice job breaking it down for me, I appreciate the schooling on the subject. Your Rakim piece is amazing. Have you tackled any other Gods?

#8 soulmakossa

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 02:40 PM

Nice job breaking it down for me, I appreciate the schooling on the subject.


Thanks alot. This is from a hip hop perspective by the way, of a producer who is taking records and samples rather than using instruments, which is how it's been fom day one. If the great Kool Herc, forefather of hip hop culture picked up some instruments as a musician, instead of two turntables and some records, we'd be in a totally different place musically.

Don't want anyone to get it twisted or ruffle the feathers of almighty the hip hop purists out there who feel they know everything, but overlooked the most basic fact of the culture (teee hee heee...)

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Your Rakim piece is amazing. Have you tackled any other Gods?

Not any gods persay, but I have done portraits of other hip hop royalty if you check the site.

#9 Drums

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 12:18 AM

i actually can't sample the obvious stuff. i use synthesizer as often (or even more often) as i do sampling, but everytime i find a obvious loop or something i never know what to do with it. i think my best beats (when i sample) comes from crappy records.

#10 andt88

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 01:18 AM

Just check the STMB Beat Battle and you'll see if only the sample makes the beat.

#11 BigErnMcCracken

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 08:10 AM

i think Dilla was dope because he could take an obvious sample and make it into something dope. you don't always have to have some super rare song to sample to make a dope song. i appreciate people who make beats outta crazy obscure samples (i.e. Madlib) and i appreciate someone who can take something obvious and make it into something totally different or unrecognizable (i.e. Dilla)

#12 DJ Projexion

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 11:10 AM

i think Dilla was dope because he could take an obvious sample and make it into something dope. you don't always have to have some super rare song to sample to make a dope song. i appreciate people who make beats outta crazy obscure samples (i.e. Madlib) and i appreciate someone who can take something obvious and make it into something totally different or unrecognizable (i.e. Dilla)

Indeed. Very true.

#13 sera#1

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 12:36 PM

Okay bear with me here, I was thinking of some of my favorite beats of all time and I couldn't help but acknowledge that the reason I love them so much is because I love the original sample so much. Which brings me back to my original question. Any thoughts?

Just check the STMB Beat Battle and you'll see if only the sample makes the beat.


yeah, and make sure you vote for your favourite!!!

#14 neologism

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 03:45 PM

i think Dilla was dope because he could take an obvious sample and make it into something dope. you don't always have to have some super rare song to sample to make a dope song. i appreciate people who make beats outta crazy obscure samples (i.e. Madlib) and i appreciate someone who can take something obvious and make it into something totally different or unrecognizable (i.e. Dilla)


yeah if youve ever found a dilla or madlib sample its kinda shocking to hear how short or different they sound, so i think its more skill with the sound than the sound itself.

#15 zomg

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 09:29 PM

I heard like 80-90% of all the madvillain samples and yep they all make the tracks in their basic form. That's not counting the creativity it took to put concepts to the beats...and the effects...basslines..drums... tempo speeds.......also, the selection of the samples. The selection created a mood for the entire album. PBW is a DJ, so I guess he knows what he's doing when he chooses the final tracks for the finished product.




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