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NERDS AND WEIRDOS HAVE ALMOST KILLED HIP-HOP


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#1 DJBIGPHILL

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:25 AM

At first I had a lot I wanted to say (I actually erased it) ....but I think that Dilla said it best "These backpackers want to confuse it cuz these ni**as is icy aint got nothing to do with the music"

Hip-hop has a swagger to it, the elements have become swaggerless.

stonesthrow should be commended for putting out the roc c record, the med, oh no, guilty simpson, dperkins, becuase I see the subliminal hate on the boards about these stonethrow artist...

look at Rakim, Kane, slick rick...they all had/have swagger...and rocked more jewels than anybody.

I love this music and the culture, but I refuse to let it be over-run by those who will get bored and move on in a few years and go back to listening to what the used to listen to b4 they "discovered" a "safe" way to be involved in hip hop.


TRUST ME I ERASED AWHOLE LOT OF THINGS I REALLY WANTED TO SAY, BUT I DECIDED TO BE NICE...it is Sunday btw.

#2 BigErnMcCracken

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 02:31 PM

I understand that....
But I'd be more specific. I consider myself a nerd and a weirdo but it ain't got nothin' to do with hip-hop. Maybe because I think different than some or different things interest me but I'm not a backpacker.

But check...who's over-running so-called "hip-hop" more? Nerds and Weirdo's or "Emcee I used to sell dope and now I'm using hip-hop as a hustle" or A fuckin' HUSTLE though? That shit is a spit in my face to say you are using hip-hop as a hustle. I grew up in a hood type setting so I don't need niggas to tell me what's going on in the streets....No thank you! I don't wanna hear that shit and as a black man I never understood why.....nevermind. That's just my opinion on that.

You're right about Kane, Slick Rick....they rocked fat ropes and shit but they were still respectable and they barely said SHIT about their chain......it was all about the music and how dope their style was...not saying that they never did, that wasn't the bulk of their content. Dilla talked about being iced out but Dilla had a balance in his music...He is a musician....He didn't overdo it and the beats....OH GOD. Now every rapper's sells dope and every dopeman raps....Even back in the day because you had your dopemen (which were still respectable cats) and you had people like De La.....And everyone got airplay on Rap City and YO!...and everyone got at least some exposure. Now? PSSSH...

I talked about this in another post so I won't go into it but essentially there is no balance in the music. Why do you have to talk about bullshit to be on videos (which I don't watch now). I used to tape videos when I was a kid.....When Chris Thomas was the mayor of Rap City....Fab Five Freddy on YO!...Back then, me as an 11 year old could vibe with a 24 year old about the same dope emcee NO INTERNET NO NOTHING!....now? You can forget it most of the time.

I understand your point but I don't think there's anything wrong with being a Nerd and a Weirdo....I'm weird....you HAVE to be a little weird (and high) to think up shit like Quasimoto and even CRAZY ways to flip samples like Dilla did does. Now I do have a problem with people just getting into hip-hop in like 2002
or so and surfing on the internet and all of a sudden they're HIP HOP EXPERTS. All Backpackers aren't weirdo or nerds....maybe POSERS. I put backpackers in the same category as wanna-be thugs....so I don't know.

#3 neologism

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 02:42 PM

isnt this another way to put underground vs. mainstream?

but yeah its true how sooooo many artists today say i did this i did that. and they decide to ryhme about, and think there so good..im sure these guys cant do a freestyle without saying a drug,gun, chain, or fucking rim size! remember lowriders? those are alot cooler to see than some car with wheels that should go on a truck.

im going to listen to some tribe, early de la, and music before 1999 now.

#4 shea

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 03:24 PM

chill on the comparison crap, bla bla bla Its all been said before….. If its good music, who cares where or what it comes from.

DjBigPhill, No need to be nice....? speak your mind, where all big kids hear.

#5 j303

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 05:08 PM

i don't think you can pinpoint the state hip hop is in. Everything goes in circles. It seems a little slow right now, but maybe times will change.


i just get frustrated when i go to concerts and talk to people about various records, and their like "I only have madvillain". "did you ever hear operation doomsday?" reply, "no whats that??" its frustrating to me cause there is so much more out there to explore.

BUT at one point we all started somewhere and perhaps we decided to explore what this culture is all about.

in addition there is always going to be an individual that is a little bit more schooled than the next person. ya can't know everything.....


I've seen other scenes get killed by jumping on tee-shirts of bands logos on them, or "dressing" a certain way to express what music you listen to.

thats why these kicks, if they are legit kill me cause for some people they sport it cause its trendy. Others cause they are die hards... how does one discern without talking to the individual? nyc is just tainted. maybe its different in other areas.

i'm personallly not down w/music kicks... making money is cool... just release good projects and give good performances when your at the show... thats all i ask.

maybe im just living in a different time period, or just a stubborn bastard <_<

#6 DJBIGPHILL

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:02 PM

Everything needs to be balanced, but nowadays your either a backpacker or a gangster...it's ridiculous. Your average "undergound" mc has no PRESENCE in the black community. NONE. ZERO. Why is that, thats were hip-hop is born from. That is the makeup of the bulk of it's creators, so why has the so called underground elite...failed to capture a black audience? Just the way the"underground" music is advertised now is whack...it's not advertised to the people. Were as "mainstream hip-hop" promotions have their people in the clubs, they are on the radio, their flyers for shows don't have some weirdo sh*t on it. Done in a way that your like....damn I got to go see this shit. There is nothing wrong with being different, but when your being different just for differents sake..then thats corny, thats a gimmick.

Hip-hop has a swagger to it....allow stonesthrow to be a part of that..the youth need to see acts that look like them, sound like them...and bring that rawness....


check my resume' if need be...

#7 Charlie

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:09 PM

Hip hop would swagger it's way right into the ground if it wasn't for some imaginative nerds and weirdos.

#8 j303

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:13 PM

There is nothing wrong with being different, but when your being different just for differents sake..then thats corny, thats a gimmick.



co-sign

#9 BigErnMcCracken

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:23 PM

Hip hop would swagger it's way right into the ground if it wasn't for some imaginative nerds and weirdos.


co-sign

So give us examples of who is "different" and who is "different for differents sake"

Devil's advocate: aren't people also the "same" for 'being the sames sake"....in otherwords, make money?

I mean it's a debate that could go on and on.

so why has the so called underground elite...failed to capture a black audience?


I don't know but it fuckin' hurts my feelings. Why has a lot of things failed to capture the black audience? Feel me? Non-music related....Other intellegent black people sometimes fail to capture the black audience and it leaves me puzzled.

I don't like to discuss things like this in places like this so I'll stop.....But to answer your question DJBIGPHILL, I wonder the same thing.

#10 j303

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:24 PM

kool keith - different



trying to be different..ummmmm.. you got me on that one.. i'd say its more about everyone imitating each other <_<

#11 Charlie

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:25 PM

I just think about Quas and crack a smile, that shit is so dope and the average iced out dumbass wouldn't have thought it up in a million years... different for being different is obviously wack, I dunno who you're implying is doing that but fuck, when you listen to a Quasimoto track I don't know how you can say shit like nerds and weirdos are ruining hip hop. If they've almost killed it, I say finish it off, it's better than ever.

#12 BigErnMcCracken

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:30 PM

trying to be different..ummmmm.. you got me on that one.. i'd say its more about everyone imitating each other <_<


you're right....but just like everyone on the radio and videos also but people let them slide.

trust me....i'm not opposing the opinion given. i think it's just much deeper than that.

or maybe i'm just stupid....i dunno

#13 j303

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:39 PM

charlie,

good intentions but your missing the point...


being different - thats creative. but being different just to do the opposite of whats "in" is silly.

take a walk around williamsburgh brooklyn.



the problem is we appreciate music so much we can over analyze it sometimes. i know what youre saying BIG Ern...

the problem w/over analyzing a situation is that eventually you just wind up in a circle. lets just hope people keep pioneering in any way possible...


i was once asked in a hip hop documentary being done for a school project by some kids " define hip hop"


my reply - "always staying fresh" once you get stale thats it.

#14 Charlie

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:46 PM

Yeeee staying fresh is what I'm sayin', creativity and new ideas come from individual thought, what big ol' phil might call a weirdo or a nerd is just a creative mind. Different isn't necessarily a good thing, but in the cases of Doom, or guys like Dudley, the fact that they strayed off the beaten path not only pushed this genre forward but also kept my playlist fresh.

#15 j303

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:05 PM

i can see dudley moving waaaayyyy foward, but doom. i just dont know..


now im going to completely delve off the topic. like everyone else i tried to obtain every article on dilla when he moved on..

i wanted to see what people would write. who would be interviewed. just gathering other people's perspectives on dilla's career /life.


did doom ever pay respect? thats all im saying. tell me if im wrong.


at this point of time everyone gets the entire mask point... dude is 40 plus years old.. time to grow up and take off the mask...

i remember when he used to play at shows and have the lights killed. It seems the mask is becoming a cliche. if thats not backpacker i don't know what is - serious!!

#16 BigErnMcCracken

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:10 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I read that DOOM was at Dilla's funeral with his mask off....

<_<

#17 j303

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:13 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I read that DOOM was at Dilla's funeral with his mask off....

<_<



thats valid fo me.

#18 DJBIGPHILL

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:36 PM

what big ol' phil might call a weirdo or a nerd is just a creative mind


thats not what I am saying...look at ultramagnetic mc's backin the day they were different.........but they still had that hip-hop feel and swagger to them. and they were def different from what was out at that time. Kool keith is just on some other shit right now.

I knew most people on this board wouldn't agree with me, but I felt the need to say what i said...I actually buy records, I am out there, I am active in the community, I am in the clubs, I have a presence in my city...and I am going on what I know, not what i think. I put on the dilla benefit shows in my city, I could go on and on but I won't.

but trust me, I don't have a problem with nerds and weirdos, to each his own, but that has nothing to do with being creative...nothing at all. Hip-hop must continue to grow and mature, but once it strays too far from it's roots...it turns into something else.

no disrespect to anyone but its statements like this that kill me

just think about Quas and crack a smile, that shit is so dope and the average iced out dumbass wouldn't have thought it up in a million years



wtf is that suppose to mean? That is a iresponsible statement, and its arrogant statements like that that put people off to the music. This is exactly what I am talking about, that statement could be viewed in a million different ways. so you have to be a dumbas to have jewelery? or you can't understand quas becomes you rock ice, what kind of statement is that. I have to take it for face value, I didn't beat around the bush nor did I make any references to anybody specific in my posts.


Hip hop is doing better than it ever has, it basically runs the music industry. It keeps black people with jobs, creates programs inthe hood....I can go on. There is a powerfull ripple effect that has a ton of positives, as well as negatives. Swagger is flavor....confidence. Little brother is the perfect example of a group who should at least have gold records..they have it all beats, ryhmes, GOOD SONGS...real songs. But they are promoted so bad....that they are not given to the people correctly.

I just feel like hip-hop needs to be taken back......and I will say this, b4 you critizize a certain genre of the music, go to the people that listen to the music learn why they like that style of music, wether it be some backpacker, crunk, bounce whatever....you might learn something. But then again, if you scared to go, I can understand that as well.

#19 .SL.

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:44 PM

I feel every last thing everyone's been sayin'!
Eveything I've been wanting to say has already been said already.
ESPECIALLY ABOUT THESE FOOLS THAT PICK UP ONE LP OR SOMETHING AND SWEAR THEY KNOW ALL OF ONE FOOLS SHIT.
I've ran into fools that thought that Jaylib were the same person and shit.
I hate fools that have no real knowlegde about Hip-Hop.
KEYWORD, HIP-HOP.
I call all that mainstream shit RAP.
VERY BIG DIFFERENCE.

#20 Toya?

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:55 PM

I like this topic :)

Anyway, nerds & weirdos are keeping us entertained, they're keeping everything fresh (for those who know about it, like us). The people who are killing hip-hop are those who make songs like 'Chicken Noodle Soup', 'Fry That Chicken', & 'Do The Stand Stand (or whatever it's called)'. <_<

I miss how it used to be in the 80's & 90's. I know it can't stay that way, but I just wish people would do this hip-hop thing for the love of it and give back to the artform, instead of just doing it as a 'hustle'. Now that hurts my feelings. FUCK THAT

It's hard to find artists that are original and creative, that makes music how they want to, because they love it; not to sound like what's on the radio because they think it's easy money. Maybe it's just here in Cincinnati, I don't know.

#21 Toya?

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 09:06 PM

Hip hop is doing better than it ever has, it basically runs the music industry. It keeps black people with jobs, creates programs inthe hood....I can go on.
I just feel like hip-hop needs to be taken back......



I feel that, people gotta eat, but hip-hop isn't for everyone. Some just need to go to college or keep hustling. I know that's rude, but that's me. We have a hip-hop rec center that teaches kids how to dance, do graffiti, produce music, and DJ. I'm really feeling that place, it's keeping kids out of trouble.

#22 BazacoPROject

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 06:38 AM

At first I had a lot I wanted to say (I actually erased it) ....but I think that Dilla said it best "These backpackers want to confuse it cuz these ni**as is icy aint got nothing to do with the music"

Hip-hop has a swagger to it, the elements have become swaggerless.

stonesthrow should be commended for putting out the roc c record, the med, oh no, guilty simpson, dperkins, becuase I see the subliminal hate on the boards about these stonethrow artist...

look at Rakim, Kane, slick rick...they all had/have swagger...and rocked more jewels than anybody.

I love this music and the culture, but I refuse to let it be over-run by those who will get bored and move on in a few years and go back to listening to what the used to listen to b4 they "discovered" a "safe" way to be involved in hip hop.
TRUST ME I ERASED AWHOLE LOT OF THINGS I REALLY WANTED TO SAY, BUT I DECIDED TO BE NICE...it is Sunday btw.


Whooooahh.....

I haven't seen any subliminal hate at all. I haven't read every post, so I guess there could be one or two...but there isn't enough hatin' going on on this board to merrit such a seriously angry post as this one.

The elements have become swagerless? wtf? Hip-Hop is almost dead, wtf?

Man, people have been saying hip hop is dying since De La Soul was dead, its a bullshit prophecy. Hip-Hop ain't dead, it ain't almost dying and its state has nothing to do with anyone on these boards.

Dude, that post was like a vomiting of everything that pisses you off or somthing. I don't see what you are trying to say and who or what you are blaming.

And, by the way, nerds and weirdos fucking made hip-hop....who else but a weirdo would throw names like PEN and CODE and ZORO up on walls with spray paint? Who else but a weirdo would pop'and'lock and do windmills on a dance floor? Who else but a nerd would rewire a mixer to have a cross-fader that you could cut with and invent cuts like the transformer?

NERDS AND WEIRDO'S MADE HIP-HOP

#23 neologism

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 04:24 PM

I feel every last thing everyone's been sayin'!
Eveything I've been wanting to say has already been said already.
ESPECIALLY ABOUT THESE FOOLS THAT PICK UP ONE LP OR SOMETHING AND SWEAR THEY KNOW ALL OF ONE FOOLS SHIT.
I've ran into fools that thought that Jaylib were the same person and shit.
I hate fools that have no real knowlegde about Hip-Hop.
KEYWORD, HIP-HOP.
I call all that mainstream shit RAP.
VERY BIG DIFFERENCE.


i always do the same thing, if i say rap someone will look at me and think" he listens to lil jon, dem franchize boys etc.." and i dont want anyone to think im into that and following the same crowd. and i love this board cause its our small group of hip hop fans who know music is more than finger snaps, and spinning wheels.

#24 j303

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 04:42 PM

teaching people how to do graff...



yo that is saaaddddd..


throw the kids out on the street. have them experiment with different caps. different aersol companies and stuff.

acetate - all that.

i'd just throw style wars at them, graffitti world and subway art... maybe a couple books on da da and surrealism.


then i would let them explore....


thats like juliard offering clasess on how to become a better m.c.


not good!

#25 Brother of Inertia

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 04:48 PM

i always do the same thing, if i say rap someone will look at me and think" he listens to lil jon, dem franchize boys etc.." and i dont want anyone to think im into that and following the same crowd. and i love this board cause its our small group of hip hop fans who know music is more than finger snaps, and spinning wheels.

high five.

#26 taza_one

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 09:10 PM

KEYWORD, HIP-HOP.
I call all that mainstream shit RAP.
VERY BIG DIFFERENCE.


No offense but I can't wait till I never hear this kind of breakdown again. It's divisive and just wrong.

Hip-Hop is the culture. Rap is the music. Like rock or any other genre, some is good, some sucks hamster penis.

I agree that swagger is important. It always has been. Creativity is also important. I like all kinds of rap music for different reasons. Some I like for the beats, others I like for the words. I especially like when the whole thing is slammin. Hip-Hop would be boring if it all sounded the same, underground, or mainstream.

#27 Toya?

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 07:10 AM

teaching people how to do graff...
yo that is saaaddddd..
throw the kids out on the street. have them experiment with different caps. different aersol companies and stuff.

acetate - all that.

i'd just throw style wars at them, graffitti world and subway art... maybe a couple books on da da and surrealism.
then i would let them explore....
thats like juliard offering clasess on how to become a better m.c.
not good!


Damn, it's keeping the kids out of trouble, that's all that matters. Yeah, it's something that you can't really teach, like a drawing class in college. You can't teach someone to be creative, but it's giving the kids a safe atmosphere where they can be creative. It's also a history class. All the classes at that center are. I mean, some of those kids don't know where all this started. It's all about history and providing them with a safe place to hang out and stay out of trouble. Yo it's saaaddddd that people didn't think about that.

And, by the way, nerds and weirdos fucking made hip-hop....who else but a weirdo would throw names like PEN and CODE and ZORO up on walls with spray paint? Who else but a weirdo would pop'and'lock and do windmills on a dance floor? Who else but a nerd would rewire a mixer to have a cross-fader that you could cut with and invent cuts like the transformer?

NERDS AND WEIRDO'S MADE HIP-HOP


Yo, end of discussion. Bazaco, drop the mic, you made the point right here :D

#28 grizz grizzlebee

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 08:31 AM

you got some good points big phil, but damn, "nerds and weirdos have almost killed hip-hop"?!! thats a lil over zealous, dontcha think? i mean shit, whats "weird"? a lot of the best musicians in any genre were pretty "weird" folks. i mean i think you could call a lot of artists weird, most are prolly pretty weird by the standards of the status quo. i think a lot of the time this "swagger" you refer to is an act put by an artist, maybe they dont want every body who buys a their record or sees them live to know how weird they really are (or think they are).
big ern got so many good points i cant even quote 'em all. dude who said weirdos invented hip hop is on point too.
theres some weirdos in "mainstream" rap too, that one dude in the ying yang twins looks and talks like some LSD/nintendo fuckin nightmare, and both them dudes got pimp-walk swagger. lil john? that cat banks on weird. record collectors are forever bein called nerds or geeks, and who digs through more old records than hip hop cats? shit, if it werent for hip hop "nerds" nobody would even be makin turntables anymore anywayz (well, maybe).

#29 Vynal Duss

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:11 AM

Look fuck all this divisive seperated type shit for real. At the end of the day there are only two catogories that mean any fucking thing, and that is, GOOD MUSIC, And Bad MUSIC. Every single kick, snare, hi hat, synth, dustie, all comes down to whether it dope or not!! Damn, whats the fucking point of criticizing segments and groups, or whatever. Hip Hoppers where the group that was looked down upon by society. Just some young good for nothings, who happened to be talented and mad creative. I dont understand why everyone feels the need to fucking "Claim Somthing". Fuck that.

If you wanna bump lil jon all fucking night, and act like your too hard to breath......do it, and keep it fuckin movin.

If you wanna be creative and be "ORIGINAL" not just "Different" please do that. And thats the whole point folks.

As for me, I choose original, with the understanding that ANYTHING can sell. But in an industry of cookie cutter boring as same ole shit-ness, why diss people who are different. Why even feel the fuckin need to say some shit like that. If you dont like whatever, dont fuck wit it......simple.

But I suspect that there are way more Madlibs, and Murs, and Dooms, that have real fucking day to day lives, that also happen to be living a life that I pray God blesses me with one day. Whats better than gettin up everyday and not worrying about a fucking boss or day job eating 8 to 12 hours out of your life, Yes NOT just Day BUT life, that you'll never be able to get back.

On the opposite end, theres 50 cent, Lil Jon, And whoever the fuck else that cant possibly be the way they are presented everyday. Lil jon aint yelling like a ridiculas dumbass when he wit his lady trying to get some. 50 cent aint mean muggin and thuggin in a multi million dollar home with a little son 24-7. So there are more people I suspect like my underground heroes doin it, and livin thier dream.

But anyway, fuck this divisive bullshit. And people dont let the industry mind fuck you. For those who can remember, Bobby McFerrin made a classic Song, "Dont worry, be happy" Basically Beat boxin and singin, and it sold. As it should have, it was different. There is a market for everyone, just do you, and why even bother with the other shit, keep it movin....Peace.

#30 shakey finch

shakey finch

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:35 AM

i just wanna hear raps about guns and shit like that :blink:




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