Nate Jackson Kills Niggas

MF Doom is Overrated (not trolling)

54 posts in this topic

I'm not trying to troll this forum or anything...

I'm a fan of MF Doom, But I think MF Doom is nowhere near as dope as people say he is. The reason I think this is because there are hella emcees who would put him to bed. Also, I feel his slow rhyme style is a little derivative of EPMD.

Tell me what you think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem. I was just trying to see if anyone else felt the same, and have an actual discussion about hip-hop. But I guess I was pulling to hard on your heart chords for you to actually think about what I said. if you disagree can you please explain why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just like that he is different. After 26 years of being a rabid rap fan (I liked some rap before It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back, but that was the record that set it off for me), I get real tired of hearing about awesome some rapper is and popping bottle and all that shit...

Never saw this before:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Subjective statements are subjective...

I prefer slower rhymes, it forces the mc to focus on wordplay, flow and content rather than just going hella quick over a beat with some irrelevant ish. Just my opinion.

If anything, by industry standards... Doom is underrated.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the creativity of his lyrics. He has a lyrical style like no other. Most rappers spoon feed you, and give you punchlines that, while seeming clever at first, at further glance they hold little weight. Meanwhile, DOOM hit's you with some that might go over your head for a minute, but then make you double take and jaw drop...

He could be some kind of wacko

waiting for the chance to heat the pipe like a crack hoe...

ILL

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh true. yeah I completely forgot about his lyrics. he's lyrics are far more creative than most rappers. But Flow wise I think dudes like Rakim or Krs-one have him beat by far. Also, there are hella rappers who don't talk about how dope they are like Q-tip, or posdnous. Personally I like de la soul, tribe or the pharcyde because I relate to them more than most rappers. Do y'all relate to the shit Doom says? cuz I just don't. if I did I'd prolly think he's a doper rapper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it may be difficult for a 15 year old to relate to a 43 year old man who doesn't even live in this country anymore, that's just a fact. but the villain's message is timeless, and you will one day fall under his sway as every living thing is destined to. it's all part of the plan.

They used to beg him not to egg 'em on halloween

told 'em holla back with the suede pumas, dolla green.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to relate to the words to relate to the music... Words are symbols. I relate to doom as a person, the mask and the style. The confusing (sometimes) lyrics just add to the persona and character that I relate to. So when I recite his rhymes I don't feel the words, I feel the dude who's brain put them together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh true. yeah I completely forgot about his lyrics. he's lyrics are far more creative than most rappers. But Flow wise I think dudes like Rakim or Krs-one have him beat by far. Also, there are hella rappers who don't talk about how dope they are like Q-tip, or posdnous. Personally I like de la soul, tribe or the pharcyde because I relate to them more than most rappers. Do y'all relate to the shit Doom says? cuz I just don't. if I did I'd prolly think he's a doper rapper.

If skill = relatability then you're going to have a hard time enjoying 99% of art. But that's besides the point. MF DOOM is not someone you relate to. He's an exaggerated persona, a character. A supervillain, modeled after Dr. Doom, There are bits of Daniel Dumile in MF DOOM (DOOM may have been born from Dumile's tough career in the music business), but they aren't the same person. In fact, Dumile works under a few different aliases (King Geedorah and Viktor Vaughn to name a couple) with their own special quirks/aspects (although one can argue that Viktor Vaughn and MF DOOM are the same person, only that VV is a sort of 'prequel' to DOOM).

But as far as skill, I'd say that DOOM is damn near in a league of his own. His technical rhyme abilities are solid, but his most notable talent is his wit:

Some come in the form of codependence

A lot of times only end up being codefendants

Ten bucks say they tell for a lower sentence

And leave you up under the jail, begging for a penance

It don't make no sense, what happened to the loyalty?

Honor amongst crooks, trust amongst royalty

I'd rather go out in a blaze, than give 'em the glory

(How many of us have--) a similar story?

(Deep Fried Frendz)

Here we see DOOM's paranoia at it's peak; the codepedence/codefendants wordplay portrays DOOM's distrust for others, his belief that "friends" can only end up controlling you or betraying you, and his will to destroy himself in order to deny others the pleasure. It's really fantastic wordplay not only for rap, but poetry in general. You can really see the influence that Bukowski had on him here. As The Jackal said, a lot of DOOM's lyrics are often dense, and they require more reflection than usual to really "get". There are a lot of really straightforward DOOM lyrics out there, but they always come with a sort of sardonic flair to them, to the point where most of his songs/lyrics are nihilistic in their bleak portrayal of life in new york and society at large and the state of rap today.

Sorry for the wall of text. I'm a huge DOOM fan. His music has influenced me immensely. Great musician. I hope you eventually come to enjoy his music as much as I do.

Also you might want to do some fact-checking on your post there, Q-Tip and Posdnuos has definitely talked about how dope they are in their songs. Not that that's a bad thing, quite the opposite, actually. Rap was founded on talking about how dope you are. Rapper's Delight is basically 20 minutes of dudes talking about how dope they are.

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much appreciated, Primate...no need to be coy. Viktor loves such unabashed realism. I doubt anyone else minds that bright analysis.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Put ya sister on the phone..."

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(although one can argue that Viktor Vaughn and MF DOOM are the same person, only that VV is a sort of 'prequel' to DOOM).

I can see how that works, except isn't it DOOM stealing V's girl in 'Fancy Clown'?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see how that works, except isn't it DOOM stealing V's girl in 'Fancy Clown'?

I forgot about that. That's a good point. They might be two sides of the same person, kind of like The Double, but there's nothing in the song that points to that conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even anti-heros have to face-off with anti-heros.

Both have been ostracized and burnt from the world that they occupy.

Both choose different versions of "candor."

DOOM is unlikely going to show any chink in his metal. Essentially, we do not know what lies beneath the surface though we know it is there as if by literary construct.

Viktor on the other hand, is a little more rebellious and down to earth, but it is through him that the Villain is borne.

Good looking on Fancy Clown. Incredible resiliency on the microphone if you could filter out what ill ish he and Madlib are doing on the sound collaboration.

DOOM is forced by virtue of his own creation to continue on; whereas, Viktor is a prisoner to his present circumstances. Whereas DOOM tells a tale of determinism--Vik gives You something You can feel, proving that we all have (and greatly admire those who utilize) our own free will.

Mr. Dumile himself is Dante.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot about that. That's a good point. They might be two sides of the same person, kind of like The Double, but there's nothing in the song that points to that conclusion.

i always thought that's what made the song so fucking brilliant, that DOOM/Viktor are virtually the same person. that always made the lady's POV much more sympathetic for the audience, because we all are "in" on the meta joke of Dumile's characters but she clearly isn't (and neither are DOOM or Viktor, for that matter)...hence all the "What?" and "Huh?" responses from her on the other end of the telephone throughout the song-- i mean, how would you react if your significant other called you up with another completely different, more violent personality?

that's the kinda shit that made me bug out whenever i heard DOOM, and that's how i turned into such a rabid fan of his...

i'm guessing this NJKN fella comes from a camp where his first introduction to him was through secondhand means, i.e. some person who probably over-hyped Dumile in a very hipster-y, snobbish way, which lead this kid to be turned off by the notion that DOOM is legitimately that good of an artist. i know i've seen it happen around me-- i know that i was excited enough about MV to tell all my friends about it at the time i first came across it, despite none of them ever really "getting it"...then several months down the line, i come to find out that they're basically name-dropping DOOM and Quas in conversations as artists they listen to so they don't have to admit they enjoy something as lowbrow as 2 Chainz or Lil Wayne.

needless to say, the people they were trying to impress couldn't give a fuck less who or what the Batty Boyz are or how DOOM hold heat and preach non-violence. but my point is that kinda thing happens often with people who don't know what they like, and try to pretend like they enjoy things they genuinely don't just to be different. that's unfortunately what's become of the whole DOOM mystique; once you have Madvillainy being sold at Urban Outfitters, it's inevitable.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

needless to say, the people they were trying to impress couldn't give a fuck less who or what [...]or how DOOM hold heat and preach non-violence.

That's fucking heresy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

while it's hard to pin down Vik, the closest you can come is that Viktor Vaughn is a young DOOM, before he became the MF DOOM we all know and love, before Operation doomsday commenced. Through a time-travel incident referenced in VV, Vik has ended up in the present day where he operates parallel to DOOM. Vik is younger, hungrier MC, more of a low-level hustler. While the Villain always triumphs, Vik is fallible. Take Lactose & Lecithin for example, where Vik attempts to hustle some blow but gets ripped off in the process. That wouldn't happen to DOOM, ever! Vik's got skills, but he hasn't got things down pat like DOOM. This is why DOOM is able to steal his girl in Fancy Clown. Same reason Vik loses the girl on Let Me Watch, he doesn't have his game down like DOOM. Doubt Vik wears a mask either, that's why you'd never see him do a show.

You cannot discount the genius of an artist who has put this concept together, let alone in the hip-hop arena.

But here's DOOM's "on record" opinions of Vik (as of VV2 anyway):

King Geedorah on the other hand, exists in another dimension and communicates through DOOM when necessary like Fazers or The Fine Print. Not to be confused with The Final Hour, where MF DOOM appears as a guest feature.

Some deep shit. DARKER THAN THE EAST RIVER LARGER THAN THE EMPIRE STATE

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot just how naughty that shit is...the Villain sure can bounce.

Funny how race enters into the picture as a ghostly motif. An entity in and of itself. Interestingly enough, DOOM's persona seems to be most cheeky in the sense that as a performer he toes the color line, intentional. He is everybody's bloke-just another warm body here to earn his daily bread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may just be sick of hearing bout him because of how he dominates hip hop. And your. Let down that your favorite rappers like Ludacris and Lil Wayne arent getting any shine.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All caps when you spell the man's name.

Great discussion though!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MC's I like better than Doom...

Jay Electronica

Dres

Q Tip

Jay Z

Captain Murphy

(Collective) Beastie Boys

Chuck D

Mos Def

Fat Lip

I agree with crazy new name guy, killing niggas. Doom is dope, but not the GOAT. For me, he's got a nice flow, great, husky voice but lyrically he just doesn't keep my attention.

That is all.

PEACE!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MC's I like better than Doom...

Jay Electronica

Dres

Q Tip

Jay Z

Captain Murphy

(Collective) Beastie Boys

Chuck D

Mos Def

Fat Lip

I agree with crazy new name guy, killing niggas. Doom is dope, but not the GOAT. For me, he's got a nice flow, great, husky voice but lyrically he just doesn't keep my attention.

That is all.

PEACE!

kanye-taylor-swif.jpg

ayo, i'mma let you finish, mangoes...but Madvillainy is the greatest album of all time! of all time!!!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really does help to have his lyrics in front of you as you listen. The Villain is deeper than most rappers combined and then multiplied by 100.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to relate to the words to relate to the music... Words are symbols. I relate to doom as a person, the mask and the style. The confusing (sometimes) lyrics just add to the persona and character that I relate to. So when I recite his rhymes I don't feel the words, I feel the dude who's brain put them together.

Yeah words are symbols but if the brain decides to take say literal, and confuse with figurative your in a mess before you even start. Last 15 years so many Emcees are rhyming with double meaning metaphors, or at least there's a lot of people that can listen and take 2 viewpoints at the same time. You either feel what is said or you don't.

I personally think DOOM MF VIKTOR what ever alias he goes under, is the fact he speaks to you....but actually you don't know why. You just know somewhere he's making you listen in a different way. Forcing you to use your brain, there's a couple like this I'd say El-P, Sage Francis, Sixtoo, Myka 9 the list goes on.

Lets get one thing straight though, this best better thing is timeless, but a waste of energy, there's difference and in-difference. there's what you like and what you don't, then there's working out why. but best? it just doesn't exist, not when your really think about it.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a joke really ... Top 1? But there are benchmarks of excellence and there are not many rhymers who have that street smart dumb intellectual humorous socio-geo-political thug gentleman player nerd villain from the future past, combined with a mastery of language, mic technique and timing.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now