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nas is your old droog

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#31 Grifty-Rodriguez

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

I agree to an extent but would like to point out that hip hop was born from looping records
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#32 Constrobuz

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:27 PM

particularly drum breaks


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#33 Beatronome

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:58 AM

If it's dope, it's dope.



Case closed.



#34 soulREBEL360

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:11 PM

Boom.



#35 Constrobuz

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:17 PM

except that beat is wack as fuck. probably why he let those ofwg dorks rap on it. no sense in arguing about madlib on STMB though since he is our lord and savior.



#36 James Frank.

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:31 PM

idk, that's my personal favorite beat off the album...and i'm sure many would agree with me.


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#37 mangoes cash

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:10 PM

one thing Dilla did that I hate was made that snare so sharp and up in the mix during the late 90s. Any Uhmmah production really. It kinda became a thing and still is.


My point is, if you listen, like I have to a lot of old blues, swing, be bop, big band, and rock and roll, the drums are definitly in the mix, but they do not overpower the harmonics of the track. The drums are there you can feel them and hear them, they play their part, they just don't over power the track.


Paul's Boutique is like this as is Nation Of Millions. Golden era Hip Hop was like this until Boom Bap, but even still, Boom Bap had warm drums. Today, the drums are cold.

#38 MattCoops

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:49 PM

I like muffled drums using unorthodox sound. Like in Figaro

#39 soulREBEL360

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

You must admit it, though.  If you found an ill sample after digging for the better part of the weekend, and you looped it ... only to discover that the loop is incredible and you revel in the fact that nobody else caught it, you gone let that loop ride.  And if the drums take away from that feeling, then you gone leave them drums off.  Case in point wiith "Robes" by the Madlibz


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#40 soulREBEL360

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:27 PM

"Robes" is a prime example.  If the sample consists of the snare and kick after I loop it, and it sounds good, them Imma leave it.  Otherwise, if the sample is dope, then imma let ride.



#41 mangoes cash

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:53 PM

Or Fancy Clown.

I believe Madlib added in drums but they don't overpower the track, they compliment it. That's what I like. Same can be said for rappers. Don't fucking over power the track. If a rappers flow doesn't match the track, I'm out.

#42 Constrobuz

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:15 AM

You must admit it, though.  If you found an ill sample after digging for the better part of the weekend, and you looped it ... only to discover that the loop is incredible and you revel in the fact that nobody else caught it, you gone let that loop ride.  And if the drums take away from that feeling, then you gone leave them drums off.  Case in point wiith "Robes" by the Madlibz


If drums take away from the feeling it's because you used bad drums. Or "cold" drums like mangoes said which I agree with completely and what I was trying to say about wannabe 9th wonders using shitty sample pack drums. What a lot of producers (not just amateurs but plenty of big names too) don't seem to understand is drums are all about picking the right sample to begin with, not about mixing as Eqing and compressing and adding effects and distortion etc etc. and that's what IMO seperate a dilla and madlib apart from the rest, they are masters in that regard.

#43 The Jackal

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:52 AM

 

ANYWHO having no drums at all on a supposed "hip hop" "beat" is dumbing down an already over simplified genre of music that gets a bad rap for being uncreative and plagiaristic. its doing a disservice to the art, and going in a direction similar to visual arts, the over simplified minimalistic post-modern bullshit that gets mocked. not to mention its boring and is aesthetically completely different from the past 3 decades of hip hop beats. might as well just call it something different. post-internet-musique-concrete

 

 

I tend to agree with this.. The fact is, hip hop can be so much more than just looping.. Or simple chops rearranged that sound good. It's like what I told a friend of mine one time, anyone can make a "dope" beat out of James Brown... James Brown already sounds "dope". All you have to do is loop one of his tracks and you pretty much have yourself a dope beat. It takes skill to find a sample, and make that sample your own. I'm not just talking about digging for the perfect sample either. I'm talking about taking a sample (perfect or imperfect) and working with it until it carries a style and sound that's unique in itself. Too many hip hop artists have this microwave mentality, like 'Wow, look how quickly I can make a dope beat.'

And while that does take skill, it lacks artistry. Why even bother being a musician if your sole purpose is just to make as much music as quickly as possible?

Everyone thinks they're dope because they can tell what part of a soul sample sounds good. Enjoying music and being able to identify what part of that song would make a dope hip hop beat doesn't make you dope. Listening to James Brown and saying "Wow, this fat drum and brass section would make a great hip hop beat" is obvious... 

To me, the great thing about sampling is, it gives you almost unlimited freedom to make whatever you want. If you worked hard enough you could recreate a drum and brass section out of multiple samples that span multiple songs. It would take a lot of digging, and tweaking, and patience. But the end result would be something of genius and wholly your own. Rather than something that was prepackaged as dope...

 

As far as not adding drums for beats, I see it both ways. Obviously you don't want to add drums that don't fit. But at the same time, to have this philosophy that there are a huge percentage of samples that DON'T need added drums in a genre thats percussion oriented is a little weird to me... 

If the sample already has dope drums within it then great, but I feel like a lot of the samples you guys are talking about don't have drums at all. Or they're so light and buried within the sample that it basically doesn't matter that they're there.

If you want to be experimental and take hip hop in a different direction, that's one thing. 

But to simply take a song and chop it a little bit and put it back together and act like your work is done... No wonder this genre is criticized so much...



#44 James Frank.

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:27 PM

not sure if anyone here was arguing that there are a huge percentage of samples that don't require drums...but to me the issue isn't necessarily a lack of drums, but more a lack of creativity in percussion.  9/10 producers use the same generic 'boom boom bap, ba-boom boom bap" patterns using the same generic stock drum sounds. 

 

 

i'm amazed we live in times where we can all record anything on our phones and yet we're all still using the same drum kits...seems crazy to me.  if we want to further the genre, we've gotta take it that extra step further and put more effort into it-- it's gotten too easy.  even these rare tracks that don't really need all that much extra work can still have a little something extra added to them...adding percussion doesn't always mean a booming kick drum or a crackling snare; there's loads of things you can put in the background that'll make it more than just a dope loop.  most people just refuse to even dangle one toe out of the box though, so everything just stays the same.



#45 mangoes cash

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:32 PM

Yah dude,
I really can not stand any Preemo production post Moment of Truth. All his beats seem to use the same drums, and exact same pattern. Annoying. And cats be like up I got a Preemo beat.

His work over the past decade is so exactly what I am talking about.

#46 mangoes cash

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:38 PM

Maybe I spoke too soon. Check this Preemo beat... Wait for the verse.


#47 The Jackal

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:06 PM

not sure if anyone here was arguing that there are a huge percentage of samples that don't require drums...but to me the issue isn't necessarily a lack of drums, but more a lack of creativity in percussion.  9/10 producers use the same generic 'boom boom bap, ba-boom boom bap" patterns using the same generic stock drum sounds. 

 

I was talking about the criticism of the YOD EP. There are 3 or 4 tracks on there with little to no added percussion. That's quite a large percentage of a hip hop album not to have many if any percs. And I understand the criticism of it because the songs sound like fairly bland loops with little to no creativity involved in the making of them. 

That being said, I also don't want to hear the typical boom bap drum beat over and over again. I'd much rather hear something I've never heard before perc wise. There's a local cat who uses the heavy boom bap type drums and breaks, but he uses them in very innovative ways. It would be difficult to describe it here, but the point is, there's always room for innovation.

And for a hip hop album to largely exempt percussion in favor of simple sample chops/loops/arrangements doesn't feel innovative as much as it just feels lazy.. I didn't mind "Queens Get the Money" as an intro to Nas's 'Untitled' album because it was a relatively short song, and it was only one track on the album. But I agree with the criticism of YOD because a large percentage of the album just feels lazy/boring/uninteresting. 

Some of the lyrics on there were dope though...



#48 James Frank.

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:28 PM

 

I was talking about the criticism of the YOD EP. There are 3 or 4 tracks on there with little to no added percussion. That's quite a large percentage of a hip hop album not to have many if any percs. And I understand the criticism of it because the songs sound like fairly bland loops with little to no creativity involved in the making of them. 

That being said, I also don't want to hear the typical boom bap drum beat over and over again. I'd much rather hear something I've never heard before perc wise. There's a local cat who uses the heavy boom bap type drums and breaks, but he uses them in very innovative ways. It would be difficult to describe it here, but the point is, there's always room for innovation.

And for a hip hop album to largely exempt percussion in favor of simple sample chops/loops/arrangements doesn't feel innovative as much as it just feels lazy.. I didn't mind "Queens Get the Money" as an intro to Nas's 'Untitled' album because it was a relatively short song, and it was only one track on the album. But I agree with the criticism of YOD because a large percentage of the album just feels lazy/boring/uninteresting. 

Some of the lyrics on there were dope though...

 

i like the sparseness of the beats, they bring the lyricism to the forefront where it belongs.  i guess it just depends on where you're coming from...my whole introduction to this side of hip-hop was (once again) through MV.  the reason i love that album so much is that it stripped down hip-hop to its bare elements--so with that mindset, i can appreciate whenever someone tries to further that concept even more to see just how minimalist we can make a hip-hop beat before its no longer a beat.  to me, i think there's potential in stuff as weird as like lowercase music and ambient sound, feasibly you could loop up jungle sounds and make an amazing beat using aesthetics that haven't been explored too much in hip-hop as of yet.  that's why i enjoy this album, it's something i haven't heard before...unless you count "Queens Get the Money" of course.  but there definitely is artistry in that...but like all other forms of art, its subjective and no one theory is ever going to be the end-all be-all definition of what art is.  it's up to you to decide for yourself...


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#49 gEEchieDan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

i think its NAS shits sad that u gotta pull this kind of shit just to drop some raw shit when ur dealing with those big corporations smh....



#50 MattCoops

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

Maybe I spoke too soon. Check this Preemo beat... Wait for the verse.

 

The video for that actually makes the music sound better. How he's tapping on the record on the pops. Wonder if he did that during production. Reminds me when I was tapping on a gospel record to help give it some thump during recording.

 

I was really let down with that album. Before it dropped I was so hyped to hear Preemo and Bumpy were doing a new collab. Premier was one of my favorite producers and Bumpy always had a raw flow delivery. Him and M.O.P. always got me amped.

But the lyrics weren't that great and the beats just weren't up to par with the Gangstarr standards.

I bought the record for 16 bucks and sold it a month later for half the price.


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#51 The Jackal

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:15 PM

 

i like the sparseness of the beats, they bring the lyricism to the forefront where it belongs.  i guess it just depends on where you're coming from...my whole introduction to this side of hip-hop was (once again) through MV.  the reason i love that album so much is that it stripped down hip-hop to its bare elements--so with that mindset, i can appreciate whenever someone tries to further that concept even more to see just how minimalist we can make a hip-hop beat before its no longer a beat.  to me, i think there's potential in stuff as weird as like lowercase music and ambient sound, feasibly you could loop up jungle sounds and make an amazing beat using aesthetics that haven't been explored too much in hip-hop as of yet.  that's why i enjoy this album, it's something i haven't heard before...unless you count "Queens Get the Money" of course.  but there definitely is artistry in that...but like all other forms of art, its subjective and no one theory is ever going to be the end-all be-all definition of what art is.  it's up to you to decide for yourself...

 

Well, if you're going to compare YOD to MV there's a huge difference to me. MV had a unique atmospheric quality to it that gave the whole album a gritty edge that few albums achieve drums or not. That being said, I loved the percussion on MV. I don't have any complaints for the percussion on that album because it complimented the production perfectly to me. 

But my complaint isn't just about percussion, it's about production in general. Minimalism is fine to me when it's achieving something. For me YOD didn't achieve anything new, it just kind of treads over loop territory without really expanding on anything.

As for ambient music, and experimental music, bring it on. I would love to hear some MCs spitting over some Brian Eno type shit. But Brian Eno is actually getting in there and making music. He's not just listening to a soul record and hearing some nice part and chopping 4-5 bars out of it and looping it in 20 minutes and then dumping it in a pile of 15 other finished tracks he did in one day.

But ultimately you're right, it is subjective, and if you dig it, you dig it. Just offering a different perspective. 



#52 MattCoops

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:49 PM

 

... listening to a soul record and hearing some nice part and chopping 4-5 bars out of it and looping it in 20 minutes and then dumping it in a pile of 15 other finished tracks he did in one day.

 

That actually sounds like some ish I'd like to hear from a producer.



#53 mangoes cash

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:04 PM

That new jonwayne needs a beat.

There is no drums in the sample and the sample cut is sparse. That beat is begging for a beat. It's not a rule its a fell.
Sheesh negroes! Get it right!!!



Edit, he does kick it in, just later than expected.
#attentionSpan



#54 soulREBEL360

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:20 PM

Love how the thread shifted to production styles.  Good build STMB family.  Made a former forum lurker turned contributer proud.


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#55 mangoes cash

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:50 PM

Live performance coming.
http://www.egotripla...ast-no-message/

#56 James Frank.

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:40 PM

 

“If you still feel like Droog is actually Nas, you’ll get your chance to find out when he, RAST and Timeless Truth take over The Studio at Webster Hall on September 3rd.”



#57 MWBOOGIE

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:20 PM

He may don a mask.



#58 SunnyMeadowz

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:20 AM

DroogBot.
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#59 mangoes cash

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:25 PM

If its Nas, its kinda disappointing, I mean, now people will know he is a Droog... Unless he wears a mask, like MW was saying. Hm. Gimmicks, they work.

#60 James Frank.

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:54 PM

he should come out in a Richard Nixon mask.


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